[poll] RBF Petition

[CannonBall]

First, I would like to say that I have been a fan of RBF since 1996 and have everything they have ever recorded, and I owe my entire interest in music to this band. Now that I've said that, onto the constructive criticism.

After I listened to the new cover album, I became horribly disappointed in their creative abilities. While there are a few good parts on a couple of songs, most of the album could have been recorded by a high school ska band. Obviously RBF are far more talented than any high school band, but in terms of creativity, this album has none.

I always expected RBF to record a cover album, but I didn't expect it to come out like this. Their cover songs used to be their best and most creative songs, but this album sounds like something FOE would have recorded. What happened to their creativity? There is no comparison of this album to any of their old cover songs. I always loved the fact that they would cover songs in a completely different style than the original and their own.

All of these songs were covered so creatively and were, and still are amazing:
There is nothing like a dame
Hungry like the wolf
Uniform of destruction
Gigantic
Love Boat
NY NY
We close our eyes

I don't care about this cover album though, I will probably never listen to it, it's just boring. This is not my main concern though, I'm mostly worried about their next new album.

It would be a shame to see their next album come out as bland and boring as this cover album did. RBF have the best lineup of their career right now, and they have no record label telling them what to do.

This is no knock on Aaron producing the new albums, but I think that when a band produces their own albums, they get stuck doing the same things over and over again.

This petition is to encourage RBF to hire John Avila to produce their next album. Hands down TTRO and White Trash are their best albums, and he produced both of them. Cheer Up is good as well because of who produced it, but it's not quite their sound. John Avila is the best choice for RBF due to his experience playing with Oingo Boingo.

Here is a list of requests for the next album, if you agree with these requests, vote yes, if not, vote no. Please explain why you voted the way you did.

Petition Requests:
Producer: John Avila
Co-Producer: Aaron Barrett
Past songs that should influence this album:
Cannibal, Average Man, Drunk Again, Slow Down, Nothin' Like a Dame, Uniform of Destruction, Brand New Song, etc…
Overall Feel of Album: Highly Energetic, with songs like Slow Down mixed in.
More Creative Influence from Scott: Average Man is one of their best songs.

If you have any other suggestions please add them, RBF need to take into account their fans and give us what we want, we have all supported them for a long time, and now they have the freedom to write anything they want.

This is not intended to be a slap in the face to anyone in the band, but just a note to let them know what we expect of them.

[LyinAss Bitch]

I have to disagree with most people on the latest cover album. I like it tremendously. Is it time for a new original?…or course, and I'm sure ya'll will get it, but let the band do it the way they want. There is a reason they aren't with a record label…who the fuck wants you telling you what songs you can or can't produce, sing, or have on an album? Not having a [i]record label[/i] is what will ultimately allow them to show off their best talents without it being censored.

They are getting their feet wet with being independant and away from the label. Anybody else would have failed by now, and in my opinion…they haven't failed at all.
So go ahead…beat me up and disagree with me, but my mind is not changing.

[CannonBall]

I completely AGREE with you. I understand your points, and I'm not telling them what to do, but I am telling them what I like, and as a long term fan, I would like to have them release some music that I like again. I like Monkeys, and I think it was a good album. I really just want to hear some new music that will impress me. The RxBandits are a perfect example of growth and progress that we should see from talented bands. RBF have the talent, but they seem to be lacking inspiration.

We aren't the record label, we are more important, we are the fans that pay them to make music, without us they are nothing.

Other bands wouldn't have failed by now, for example: LTJ, Goldfinger, RxBandits, and RBF have all left major labels and are doing very well on their own.

Lots of people love Cannibal, and Average Man. We would love to see more songs like that, I think it would really take them to the next level.

Maybe this is what they have planned for the next album, I have no idea, but from the sound of this cover album, I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Sonic Libido]

john Avila has very little to do with why TTRO and White Trash, those albums are gold because of how long aaron had to work on the songs… to tell you the truth, the production on TTRO and White Trash is the worst part.

in fact, I've always liked aaron's producing more than any other's (as far as rbf albums go)…. and if you can't see why adding a producer would hinder creativity and, in fact, push things more twards what others have done you're foolish, aaron has produced almost no one else except RBF, he (for several reasons) is the most qualified person for the job, any other producer would base what he does with RBF on past experiences, Aaron's past experience is RBF,
therefore he knows what the band wants to so more than anyone….. also, he writes all the songs

…. not only that, hiring a producer would mean the band loses a percentage of creative control… the more people you add, the more people have a vote, you put a producer in the mix and it's not reel big fish's album, it's reel big fish & the producer's album!

also, I think you should go fuck yourself, RBF puts out one album you don't like and you come on here guns 'a blazin' thinking you've got a plan that'll save the band and then expect everyone to yell at a band for still making ska music when it hasn't been popular in over a decade?

relax, take a deep breath, you're not a genius, and you should "keep your mouth shut" if you don't like the new record, don't listen, but it's a fucking cunt move to roll in here and tell the band what THEY should be doing with THEIR record….

I did find it funny that you whined about how they're not being creative and doing there own thing and then you TOLD them exactly what YOU wanted them to do, which was a total contradiction.

[CannonBall]

Producing an album does not just involve recording a band. It involves working out harmonies and fine tuning songs, and helping the band work out parts of songs that they need help on. Why do you think the horns sound so much different harmony wise on the John Avila albums than their other albums? Listen to some Oingo Boingo and you will hear the influence.

Yes, a producer does have creative control over a recording, but that's when a record label hires a producer so that a band can have a sound that would sell. RBF would be hiring a producer and therefore they would always have final say on anything.

No, I won't fuck myself because RBF put out one album I didn't like, it's not about that, I also didn't like WNHTYNH.

No need to get mad dude, we can have a calm conversation about this without any name calling.

As I said, I've been a fan of RBF for a long time and I have everything they have ever recorded.

Their new stuff just sounds like FOE, I never liked that band that much, and I'd hate to see RBF loose what made them as successful as they are.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1232759595=CannonBall]
Producing an album does not just involve recording a band. It involves working out harmonies and fine tuning songs, and helping the band work out parts of songs that they need help on. Why do you think the horns sound so much different harmony wise on the John Avila albums than their other albums? Listen to some Oingo Boingo and you will hear the influence.

Yes, a producer does have creative control over a recording, but that's when a record label hires a producer so that a band can have a sound that would sell. RBF would be hiring a producer and therefore they would always have final say on anything.

No, I won't fuck myself because RBF put out one album I didn't like, it's not about that, I also didn't like WNHTYNH.

No need to get mad dude, we can have a calm conversation about this without any name calling.

As I said, I've been a fan of RBF for a long time and I have everything they have ever recorded.

Their new stuff just sounds like FOE, I never liked that band that much, and I'd hate to see RBF loose what made them as successful as they are.
[/quote1232759595]

90% of the horn lines on the avila albums are in unison and always sound crackle-tastic and shitty, the horns on the post avila albums (not to mention the other instruments have sounded MUCH better. just because avila played in boingo doesn't men he knows what RBF should sound like, RBF isn't boingo, and they sure as hell don't need boingo's bassist's "help" on any of their songs, it seems completely foolish to hire some guy to poorly produce the albums when Aaron, who comes up with, does vocals, and plays guitar on the songs does a great job of producing the albums and is the only one who knows how they should truly sound…. a produce would simply give us HIS interpretation of Aaron's work

we all own all the records, and yet you're the only one on the board to eve post something as pretentious and bitchy as this, just because you buy the records doesn't mean you know anything about what the band "should be" and it's just annoying to see someone come in here thinking they can "save the band from themselves", the sound on the records is going to change from record to record, you're either along for the ride or not, but if RBF made albums like TTRO and White Trash all the time you'd be in here bitching about how all the records sound the same

Aaron wrote the songs for both RBF and FOE, it's understandable that they'd sound the same…. in fact, Aaron disbanded the FOE because they sounded the same as RBF and he was writing the same songs for both bands, not to mention, Derek & john are ex-FOE….. however, I'm not hearing any FOE influence at all, really, I'd tell you if I did, but I honestly don't….. it sounds…. like an RBF covers album…. can you plese explain why, A.) it sounds like FOE, and B.) how you could like RBF and not FOE (considering Aaron wrote MOST of the FOE album for RBF originally)

[Desensitized]

I do agree with you to an extent. But not when you say Cheer Up doesn't sound like RBF. In my mind, other than the tracklisting which feels like was just thrown together and has no flow, the sound is PERFECT, and the songs feel like Aaron trying something new. He might not have been writing about his usual stuff, but this is the one album where it works to his benefit. I never understand when people hate on it. If you put 'Brand New Song, Somebody Hates Me, Big Star, Sleep All Day, Peter Bones, or even The Set Up on the album, nobody would think twice. It was a logical step forward with their sound.

The problem is, after that, Aaron seemed scared about moving forward.

WNHTYNH is not a step forward overall. The production was lousy, the songs mostly feel safe, and the subject matter of the songs was more of the same. However, songs like One Hit Wonderful, The Joke's On Me (despite the strange fan hate. It's not that bad, people.), Last Show, and Say Goodbye, the album felt like a holding pattern. Not to say the 'old school' songs sucked, The Bad Guy is one of RBF's best songs, it could have even been on Cheer Up, and Story Of My Life and Revolution have nice sounds even if they're covers. But the rest feels so been there, done that.

Monkeys is actually the same, other than the a couple of songs, it manages to feel more stale. Slow Down, and Cannibal are the only songs that seem to have thought put into them. Also, it's telling when the REMAKES of the songs are far better than the new ones. The band feels like they're actually into the songs. Although, the New Version Of You, is actually pretty good too.

The cover album is the same. 10 songs just given the standard ska trappings. You might be happy with that, but it doesn't change the fact that even RBF COVERS were better than that. Even the cover album feels like it could be more than it is.

But for some reason, casual fans think of this album as a comeback. That's what worries me. I don't want to see a creative band rest on mediocre songwriting.

Cannibal is one of the best songs Aaron has ever written. It shows that he's still willing to try to new things, and that's what I want to see. Creative songs like Cannibal, RBF trying new styles of songs like Slow Down, and a handful of classic RBF style tracks like The Bad Guy or The New Version Of You. As long as the production doesn't sound like TTRO, WNHTYNH, or the new songs on Monkeys, then it's already a step up.

[Desensitized]

Also, whether you like FOE or not, it was better than any RBF album since Cheer Up and is far better produced than TTRO is.

[CannonBall]

I'll reply to Desensitized on this one since he knows how to have a casual debate.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I do like Cheer Up and I think it has the best ska songs on it that RBF ever wrote, but it's not quite a RBF album because it feels like it has more filler (thanks Jive). and as for the Track order, yeah, it sucks, I think Jon put together a better track list once. The other letdown is that Average Man wasn't on Cheer Up!

There is stuff on WNHTYNH that I like, but the use of room mics killed it for me, horrible sounding record. I'm a bit of a snob and have to have good quality recordings to get into the music, it really sucks because it prevents me from enjoying a lot of good music from the 60's.

Yes, Cannibal is the best song Aaron ever wrote, very Oingo Boingo, hence my push for John Avila. Slow Down is good too, but I do have to say that Party Down is very creative too, even if it's just in a novelty kind of way.

Seriously, what does everyone have against the production of TTRO and WDTRSH? I thought those were really good albums, great guitar and drum sounds, the horns are very powerful and the vocals have great tone…

…And that brings me to my next point, the cover album has very uninspired vocals, why? Aaron and Scott are a great vocal duo, but when I play songs from that album and then compare them with the singing on other albums, something is lacking, but I don't know.

"But for some reason, casual fans think of this album as a comeback. That's what worries me. I don't want to see a creative band rest on mediocre songwriting."

That was the exact reason I started this post.

And Sonic Libido,
"if RBF made albums like TTRO and White Trash all the time you'd be in here bitching about how all the records sound the same"

I'm referring to the production of the albums, the power that they have when you press play. WDTRSH rocks from the very first second it starts playing.

I'll answer your questions:
can you plese explain why,
A.) it sounds like FOE,
It sounds like FOE because there is nothing characteristically RBF about it, the horn lines are bland, skipping from track to track in the middle of the song, I can hardly notice a change in anything. The horns sound pinched and uninspired, just like FOE. It's just simple ska like any band would write, RBF became popular because they weren't a typical ska band.

and B.) how you could like RBF and not FOE (considering Aaron wrote MOST of the FOE album for RBF originally)

I don't like FOE because Scott isn't in the band. Scott is the most talented member in RBF and has a very special singing voice, FOE is Aaron singing with himself. I just don't like FOE, I really don't like much ska to begin with so it takes a lot to win my approval (my approval is important to myself and only myself)

If you can't see the difference between RBF and FOE then you are the one that really doesn't understand RBF.

What made RBF good was the fact that their songs weren't straight up ska songs, they had creativity and depth and dynamic to them. They would always have interesting transitions from one part of a song to the next.

Listen to "Nothin' Like A Dame" and then listen to their new cover album and explain to me how any part of this album matches the creativity of that one song.

[Desensitized]

About TTRO, since that's the only production I hate… To me, it feels very tinny, and the snare drum sounds like popcorn popping. For a while, ska bands loved this sound in the 90s, and I just hate it. I love the snare drum to be a loud bang, as if the beat of the song is truly important (because it really is) instead of a passive, tiny pop that gets covered by every other instrument.

Also, the songs are basically the same as the ones on Everything Sucks, except faster. nothing really amazing.

However, WDTRSH complaints, I don't understand. It has a rich, full sound and every instrument sounds bright and beaming. It's almost like glam rock meets ska, a sound that you never hear as opposed to the standard ska/punk on TTRO (though they ARE great songs) and every song is a brand new experience. I think they probably could have done without 'Everything Is Cool' (a weaker 'Skatanic' re-write) and 'Scott's A Dork' (B-side material, really. It's kind of boring), but otherwise every song is top notch. (Also, 'Sleep All Day' is better than 'Song #3')

As for Cheer Up, this is the tracklist I made and posted in the other thread:

1- Kiss Me Deadly
2- Cheer Up
3- Suckers
4- Ban The Tube Top
5- What Are Friends For?
6- Somebody Loved Me
7- A Little Doubt Goes A Long Way
8- Dateless Losers
9- Good Thing
10- Valerie
11- Give It To Me
12- Average Man
13- Sayonara Senorita
14- Boss DJ
15- Brand New Hero
16- Drunk Again

Listening to it in that order gives it a fantastic flow and makes it feel more like an album than a collection of songs. and in this age of digital albums and playlists, this is the Cheer Up I play.

It feels like a full fledged follow-up to WDTRSH, where every song is a new experience and has a bright pop sound that is totally different from WDTRSH's giant glam sound, but IMO, is every bit as enthralling.

But, then again, the band considers Monkeys and the B-Sides as pure stop gap releases, and given that WNHTYNH felt more like a way to end their contract than to make a legitimate album, I hold hope that Aaron will really work to make the next one a great album. And it doesn't have to be a great SKA album, either.

[CannonBall]

I've always loved the snare on TTRO, but I do get your point. I like the punch, but I also like So Long and Thanks for All the Shoes by NOFX which has a similar snare sound, but you can actually hear the snares with NOFX.

Yes, the Glam rock is perfect for WDTRSH. I miss Andrews Drumming, it always seemed just hectic enough, but Ryland is a good replacement, he's got that same punk energy. I also like how WDTRSH is a cohesive album where the songs were written to flow into the next song, form the end of the setup to, thank you for not moshing, although that wasn't the best song to transition into. Down in Flames to We Care works much better.

Sleep all day is better, and Scott's a dork is a skipper, but when you listen to it, there are some really good. musical aspects to it.

Yeah, WNHTYNH just seemed like the last nail to piss off jive and get fired.

I just think there is nothing dramatic anymore to inspire them. They are on their own and doing very well, what's there to complain about and cause angst?

Stress always makes for good music, and I think they have none now, like they did before.

[CannonBall]

Those google ads are pretty powerful, anyone else notice the Forbidden Zone ads below?

[The Wind]

[quote1232777325=Desensitized]
The Joke's On Me (despite the strange fan hate. It's not that bad, people.)

[/quote1232777325]

I love that song. My favourite on the album.

I think it all boils down to saying that Reel Big Fish needs to stop writing ska-punk and just start writing music.

[Desensitized]

[quote1232779996=The Wind]
[quote1232777325=Desensitized]
The Joke's On Me (despite the strange fan hate. It's not that bad, people.)

[/quote1232777325]

I love that song. My favourite on the album.

I think it all boils down to saying that Reel Big Fish needs to stop writing ska-punk and just start writing music.
[/quote1232779996]BAM. Dead on.

[CannonBall]

[quote1232781419=Desensitized]
[quote1232779996=The Wind]
[quote1232777325=Desensitized]
The Joke's On Me (despite the strange fan hate. It's not that bad, people.)

[/quote1232777325]

I love that song. My favourite on the album.

I think it all boils down to saying that Reel Big Fish needs to stop writing ska-punk and just start writing music.
[/quote1232779996]BAM. Dead on.
[/quote1232781419]
Yup, I think that would do it. The RxBandits have done pretty well with that idea. They can still have horns, just something new.

So, good idea, let's see what kind of Music this band can write! Do they read this board, or are we going to get another ska album?

[LyinAss Bitch]

I'm going to throw a link out here to an interview. Hopefully it'll make some of you chill the fuck out.

[link=hyperlink url]http://www.swigged.net/index.php?view=article&catid=3:interviews&id=166:interview-with-reel-big-fish[/link]

[The Wind]

Still don't know how to hyper link, eh?

[link=http://www.swigged.net/index.php?view=article&catid=3:interviews&id=166:interview-with-reel-big-fish ]Click here[/link]

[Surly]

That interview is great actually. I agree with some of your points, but everything has already been said. And i'd only say it worse.

EDIT: "I think it all boils down to saying that Reel Big Fish needs to stop writing ska-punk and just start writing music."

Definetly the truth.

[CannonBall]

I couldn't be more chilled out, I posted this because I wanted to see what other people thought, that's why I made a poll so you could clearly disagree with me. Are people not allowed to disagree?

"Is that why you started producing the records for Reel Big Fish?
Sometimes when you’re in a band it’s good to have an outside opinion. But in this band, people don’t get what we do. It just doesn’t work out [for us] with those producer types. I’ve learned a lot from producers – they’ve definitely given me good advice at times – but it’s never worked out the way it should."

I don't disagree with what he said, but a producer would be different now because they would ultimately have the last word since they aren't on a record label. If they talked to enough people, I'm sure they could find someone that understands the RBF sound. And it's partially NOT knowing that sound that can bring things to another level.

[Desensitized]

Actually, an album of Poison covers might have been better. :p

By the way, you know Guy Stevens? The guy who produced London Calling, arguably the greatest album of all time? It's because he threw chairs, screamed at everyone, and tampered with the band's sound that the album ever came to be. If the Clash produced it purely by themselves… Well, you should listen to the demos, they're awful.

But what worked for the album was that Mick Jones and Joe Strummer sat down and WROTE songs. The songs themselves in the demos are awesome, but the production is horrid on them.

What I'm saying is, without Guy Stevens, The Clash would never have made London Calling.

Now I'm not saying they're the same as The Clash or anything, but the point is The Clash weren't afraid to take the risk with a crazy fucker like Guy Stevens and it took their sound to a new level.

They don't need a big-wig producer or anything, but how can it hurt using Jim Siegal (How It Goes), Joe Gittleman, Bill Stevenson and Jason Livermore, or even Mark Hoppus. All these guys produced some of the best albums of recent years, ska and punk, and I'm fairly certain they'd "get" the RBF sound.

Another thing, all the production credits for these albums (even London Calling) have the band as co-producers. In other words, the band gets outside input AND keeps creative control.

And what's wrong with that?

[CannonBall]

Thank you, my point exactly.

When you look at the most creative and inspired albums throughout history, a huge amount of their success it attributed to the producers. It doesn't even have to be someone with any skill, it just needs to be someone with outside ears, to ad perspective, to diffuse arguments (or even to encourage them). I'm sure that any of the fans on this board could go and produce the RBF album and it would sound better. This is not to say that Aaron isn't a good producer, he's actually really good, but only on other bands work (like Chase Long Beach). You can't write the songs, and then produce the songs because you don't have anything new to add to them, it's still going to be coming from the same perspective.

When I had my Ska band years ago, I was a hard nose just like Aaron and I fought any input from the other band members because I knew how I wanted everything to sound. Finally I gave in when we recorded and let other people write some of the music and influence the production. Had I not done that, the album would have been total shit, now it's just a little shitty. 8 years later I'm glad I did it, and the parts I hated back then that other people wrote, are my favorite parts now, and I completely regret hindering the creative influence from the other band members.

And I do think that Aaron and Scott need to sit down with some acoustic guitars and write the album like John Lennon and Paul McCartney. There is no doubt in my mind that Aaron and Scott could write one of the best RBF albums ever if they did that. RBF isn't just Aaron like FOE was, and the whole reason I keep listening to RBF is because I'm waiting for them to collaborate on a project.

I think the best kind of producer WOULD be someone that doesn't know RBF and doesn't even know what Ska is, it would bring so much new inspiration to the band, but since there is no label, the band could co-produce and override anything the really didn't like.

My friends band The Expendables have been around for over 10 years, and they write good stuff, but it comes out the same style for ever album. In March and April they are going to record a new album with El Hefe producing it. He has even been practicing with them and has helped write the songs. I went to a secret show a few weeks ago and I have to say that the new songs are some of the best songs they have ever written. I have only bought their music in the past because I'm friends with them, but I think this would be the first album of theirs I would be even if I didn't know them.

What about getting El Hefe to produce them? He plays trumpet and wrote some really awesome parts for some of the new expendabls ska songs.

[CannonBall]

I just saw the post that included the link to the new songs by Scott (scottklopfenstein.ning.com ). This is exactly why I think Aaron and Scott need to collaborate more.

Combine these songs with Aaron's and we'd get some amazing music.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1232919870=CannonBall]

and B.) how you could like RBF and not FOE (considering Aaron wrote MOST of the FOE album for RBF originally)

I don't like FOE because Scott isn't in the band. Scott is the most talented member in RBF and has a very special singing voice, FOE is Aaron singing with himself. I just don't like FOE, I really don't like much ska to begin with so it takes a lot to win my approval (my approval is important to myself and only myself)

If you can't see the difference between RBF and FOE then you are the one that really doesn't understand RBF.

What made RBF good was the fact that their songs weren't straight up ska songs, they had creativity and depth and dynamic to them. They would always have interesting transitions from one part of a song to the next.

Listen to "Nothin' Like A Dame" and then listen to their new cover album and explain to me how any part of this album matches the creativity of that one song.

[/quote1232919870]

So, what you're saying is…. the difference between RBF and FOE is scott?
… dude scott's great but there's certainly more to RBF than scott, he's got a great voice and he's a talented guy but he're really just one fuckin' part of it.

I understand that FOE and RBF are different bands, but scott doesn't account for all of it.

and as for the productin calls everyone's yelling for, quite frenkly, what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that you want someone else to tell RBF how to be R…. B…. F? …. if you don't like RBF produced by RBF then what you're saying is you don't like products that are 100% made by the band… and you think they should bring in a producer to make a cookie-cutter album based on his experience with other groups? Aaron knows how the songs are supposed to sound, if you don't like the RBF songs that RBF writes, plays and produces themselves then you don't like RBF…. pretty much plain and simple…. because no one is more qualified to produce the albums than Aaron.

…. I've heard nothin' like a dame…. but I don't particularly think "Won't back down" would've worked as a disco song….

[CannonBall]

Discussing this with you is like discussing gay marriage with a hard core christian, seriously, you are pulling things out of my words that I never said.

We don't agree, and no matter how much I try to explain my perspective to you, you come back with things like "you think they should bring in a producer to make a cookie-cutter album based on his experience with other groups?" which I never said, and anyway, right now they have a cookie cutter ska sound.

I'm done discussing this with you, you're so closed minded and unwilling to accept any other opinion than your own, that you have to twist my words into something that I didn't say.

[Sonic Libido]

Okay, you could've just said "I didn't say that" and then told me how a producer, whom you wanted because they have an outside perspective, wouldn't bring in perspectives from the outside… I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me why you would want someone who's not in the band telling the band what they should do on there records and changing they're sound at all, I'm pretty sure they're sick of that shit after Jive

[Seamus]

Cannonball, you have a very interesting, well thought out argument.

SL, you also have good points.

From what I can glean, Cannonball, you want RBF to write music more like Streetlight, with multiple contributors, and SL, you want RBF to write like RBF, with Aaron being Aaron.

Feel free to correct me, as this is what I am basing my opinion on, and I don't want to get it wrong.

That said, I think I have to agree with SL on this one. RBF wouldn't be RBF with any different kind of writing style. When they're happy, Aaron produces excellent songs, and that is very fun to listen to, and its why RBF has so many fans who stay loyal through every album.

Keep in mind that I am not saying that bringing in different writers/producers is bad, its just not RBF's style. I also don't mean to beat on Scott. Hell, if I knew someone who could sing, play guitar, and play trumpet, he'd be in my band no question. The LMB and his new songs are excellent, but I feel that the LMB should stay on the LMB album and RBF should stay on the RBF album. I'm not saying Aaron and Scott won't make great music, I'm saying Aaron and Scott won't make RBF music

[madamadam]

To be honest it's entirely up to Aaron & the band to decide what "RBF music" is.

Let's just see where they take this album.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1232940968=Seamus]
Cannonball, you have a very interesting, well thought out argument.

SL, you also have good points.

From what I can glean, Cannonball, you want RBF to write music more like Streetlight, with multiple contributors, and SL, you want RBF to write like RBF, with Aaron being Aaron.

Feel free to correct me, as this is what I am basing my opinion on, and I don't want to get it wrong.

That said, I think I have to agree with SL on this one. RBF wouldn't be RBF with any different kind of writing style. When they're happy, Aaron produces excellent songs, and that is very fun to listen to, and its why RBF has so many fans who stay loyal through every album.

Keep in mind that I am not saying that bringing in different writers/producers is bad, its just not RBF's style. I also don't mean to beat on Scott. Hell, if I knew someone who could sing, play guitar, and play trumpet, he'd be in my band no question. The LMB and his new songs are excellent, but I feel that the LMB should stay on the LMB album and RBF should stay on the RBF album. I'm not saying Aaron and Scott won't make great music, I'm saying Aaron and Scott won't make RBF music
[/quote1232940968]

I agree, 100%

[CannonBall]

Man, this is so complicated to explain.

Yes, I would like to see some outside perspective added to the next RBF album, they can still be RBF and have someone help produce the album.

The RxBandits did not use a producer for ATBB and it was an awesome album, but it still sounded like the RxBandits who had previously released two albums with a producer. On Feb 2nd, they are going back into the studio to record a new album, and they will be bringing back the person who produced Progress and The Resignation. Just because they will have a producer on this next album, does not mean that they won't be the RxBandits anymore. The outside ears will just help develop their sound more.

It makes no logical sense to say that a band wouldn't be the same band if they used a producer.

You said: "
Keep in mind that I am not saying that bringing in different writers/producers is bad, its just not RBF's style" and "When they're happy, Aaron produces excellent songs, and that is very fun to listen to, and its why RBF has so many fans who stay loyal through every album."

The problem with that argument is that most loyal fans started listening to them with TTRO of WDTRSH, both of which had John Avila as a producer, Cheer Up! had Val Garay. So to say that it's not their style doesn't make sense because their style would have been completely different if those producers didn't work on the 3 albums before Aaron started producing.

We have all seen RBF live, and when they preform songs from TTRO, WDTRSH, and Cheer Up, the sound the same as they did on the albums. I can't say exactly what the producers of those albums did to the songs, but they probably wouldn't be the same band if they didn't have the experience from those producers, I think they even said that in the interview posted earlier in this thread.

Anything that RBF writes, will be in the style of RBF. A producer wouldn't change that, especially when a record label isn't controlling him.

Maybe a producer on WNHTYNH would have said "hey, I don't think this album is going to sound good with room mics, we should do something different" or "hey, that's a good harmony, but when I was listening this idea popped into my head, and I think you should do this instead".

It's not like a producer will come in and say "these songs are shit, you need to change everything and write them this way".

I think I need to define what I expect a producer to do, this way we can be clear.

If I were to hire a producer, I would expect this:

They would listen to the demos of the songs for a month or so, just to get an idea of what my band had written so far.

After the producer had a good amount of time to listen to and absorb the album, the band would meet with him and discuss what he thought of the album.

At that point we could also discuss what we think of the album. If there were some songs that I thought had issues and were kind of week, I would ask for his input. Maybe there would be some lyrics that didn't fit, but for some reason, I wasn't able to think of anything else, maybe he'd have some suggestions.

I'd expect input on vocal and horn harmonies. Maybe what I wrote was good, but the producer might hear something I didn't and he might simply suggest adding a minor 3rd or something to thicken up the harmonies.

Maybe I'd want to use some sort of effect, but the producer might say that it's too campy or cheesy and would degrade the album.

I can go on, but my hands are cold and I'm having trouble typing.

What do you guys think a producers job is?

[Jeanie]

Oh my lord, I sure have missed a bunch! Not to be rude, but this seems like an awful lot of discussion on something we have zero control over.

[CannonBall]

I know, it was just supposed to be a conversation, but some people took offense to what I said, so I had to try and explain myself, over and over again.

[Desensitized]

You guys do understand that without producers, TTRO, White Trash, and Cheer Up wouldn't exist, right?

I want you to honestly tell me what damage someone like Joe Gittleman would do if he produced the next RBF album. Do you honestly think he would ruin something his friend Aaron wrote?

I'm serious here. Outside perspective is NEVER a bad idea.

[CannonBall]

I'm serious here. Outside perspective is NEVER a bad idea.

I think the Bush Administration would have to disagree with you on that.

Also, that's an interesting comment, what do you mean when you say those albums wouldn't exist? I know they would be dramatically different, but not exist? Elaborate…

[Desensitized]

They would exist, but they'd probably sound quite different. If Everything Sucks and WNHTYH is anything to go by, it would probably sound like shit and the songs would not be all they could be. It was the producers that helped flesh the ideas out.

[The Wind]

[quote1232963463=Seamus]
From what I can glean, Cannonball, you want RBF to write music more like Streetlight, with multiple contributors,
[/quote1232963463]

Now, I'm not educated on the subject, but it seems to me that Kalnoky is the type of arrogant jerk to not let ANYONE touch his music, does he really let the rest of the ever-changing line-up or a producer tell him what to do?

[Desensitized]

[quote1232967144=The Wind]
[quote1232963463=Seamus]
From what I can glean, Cannonball, you want RBF to write music more like Streetlight, with multiple contributors,
[/quote1232963463]

Now, I'm not educated on the subject, but it seems to me that Kalnoky is the type of arrogant jerk to not let ANYONE touch his music, does he really let the rest of the ever-changing line-up or a producer tell him what to do?
[/quote1232967144]Yeah, I get that impression too.

Especially with how bloated and 'important' he seems to be making his songs recently.

I used to love Everything Goes Numb, but now I far prefer Keasbey Nights. And their latest album wore out it's welcome faster than Monkeys did. Kalnoky's writing is probably far more stagnant than Aaron's is.

Streetlight is in a boat fairly similar to RBF's, imo.

[Surly]

I'd definetly rather see a producer come help the band with the next album. The band, being independent would always have the final say anyway, but it would definetly help with refining the songs and taking them to different, probably better levels.

[LyinAss Bitch]

[quote1232993352=Desensitized]
You guys do understand that without producers, TTRO, White Trash, and Cheer Up wouldn't exist, right?
[/quote1232993352]

Maybe so, but Aaron [i]hated[/i] doing Cheer Up with Val Garay producing. So much so that he wrote a song specifically aimed at Val, titled Valerie. Go ahead, read the lyrics…it's not about an ex girlfriend. Cheer Up was awesome, but think of how much better it could've been if the band could've done it the way they wanted to.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1232994874=LyinAss Bitch]
[quote1232993352=Desensitized]
You guys do understand that without producers, TTRO, White Trash, and Cheer Up wouldn't exist, right?
[/quote1232993352]

Maybe so, but Aaron [i]hated[/i] doing Cheer Up with Val Garay producing. So much so that he wrote a song specifically aimed at Val, titled Valerie. Go ahead, read the lyrics…it's not about an ex girlfriend. Cheer Up was awesome, but think of how much better it could've been if the band could've done it the way they wanted to.
[/quote1232994874]

It probably wouldn't have been made…. they made cheer up! 'cause they had to…. instead, we'd probably have an album with the best songs from Cheer Up! and a few from Friend or FOE (since without Cheer Up! the FOE never would've existed) and maybe some songs that ended up on WNHTYNH

[Desensitized]

Valerie is an awesome song, and so is the FOE album. I don't understand the argument.

If he didn't hate doing Cheer Up we never would have gotten those songs at all.

Plus, it still doesn't explain why they never play What Are Friends For live, despite it being one of RBF's best songs. (It even made the top ten in that poll we had for best RBF songs by the fans.)

I'd bring up London Calling again, but then again Mick Jones is grateful he went through hell making it.

[The Wind]

FOE was just a contingency plan.

[CannonBall]

Yeah, that doesn't make sense, I love what are friends for, it just has such an awesome feel.

[CannonBall]

Ok, I was reading Steve Choi's blog (he plays guitar in the RxBandits). A fan made this comment on the blog, regarding them getting someone to produce their new album.

Incidentally, I hear that you fellows are not recording at the Elizabethan and what's more, you aren't doing the full production yourself but are reverting to a producer from The Resignation and Progress era. I am curious as to how/why you guys made this decision, as "And The Battle Begun" is so high above the past records and so free and wonderful. If you could comment on this stuff that would be really cool.

Steve replied back to explain why they are having someone produce this album.

Blogger S. Choi RXB said…

To kate:

Here's the thing that's crucial that everyone knows; we by no means give up any creative control working with a producer. In the case of a band like us, its about having the 3rd party who's ears we trust to keep performances in check and make sure everything sounds amazing.. an unspoken member of the band if you will.. in the studio with us, who understands our music and our personalities to help mold and capture our music in the best way possible. I appreciate your props for 'Battle'. Just like that album, we cannot do what we have done before, and returning to the studio with an old friend like Chris Fudurich recording our CURRENT music nearly 7 years after we last worked with him, with our grown and matured musical minds, in addition to his changes in style and skills is a unique and very different thing indeed. For us, collaborative chemistry doesn't become worn out so there's no reverting being done. Even 'Battle' was engineered by another person who played the same role for us that Chris Fudurich had done before, and will be doing again. As far as recording at The Elizabethen.. we've never done a record there. Only parts of the later tracking and over-dubbing for 'Battle' were done at the garage, the rest was done in a studio, just like the one we will enter in a couple weeks.. Although great sounds are obviously achievable there, RX has primarily used it for rehearsing and demo-ing songs. In short, there really isn't much that is different about the process for making this record. Who and where and how can influence certain aspects, but that's about it.. the music will be what it is regardless.

That's been my exact point.

You can listen to some new stuff here [link=hyperlink url]http://mattembree.blogspot.com/[/link]

[Sonic Libido]

yes, we get that a producer would be useful if they really knew the band…. but with aaron acting as producer we have a producer who knows the band and how it should sound more than anyone else ever could!

[The Wind]

Do you really not get it or are you just trying to be funny now?

[CannonBall]

Does Aaron really know the band? Sometimes when you're so deeply involved in something, you loose sight of what things really are. It happens to everyone. When you write a paper for class, do you get a better grade on it when you proof read it for errors, or when someone in the english lab proof reads it for you? Same theory here.

[LyinAss Bitch]

[quote1233283292=CannonBall]
Does Aaron really know the band? Sometimes when you're so deeply involved in something, you loose sight of what things really are. It happens to everyone. When you write a paper for class, do you get a better grade on it when you proof read it for errors, or when someone in the english lab proof reads it for you? Same theory here.
[/quote1233283292]

For lack of a better way to put it…Aaron pretty much is the band. If everyone excluding Aaron quit, there can always be a replacement, and it would still be RBF, but with out Aaron, there is no RBF. The band formed to have fun and make music, not be graded like a term paper.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1233288098=CannonBall]
Does Aaron really know the band? Sometimes when you're so deeply involved in something, you loose sight of what things really are.
[/quote1233288098]

but… but aaron hasn't…. that's what I'm saying… and aaron DOES know the band because:

[quote1233288199=LyinAss Bitch]
For lack of a better way to put it…Aaron pretty much is the band. If everyone excluding Aaron quit, there can always be a replacement, and it would still be RBF, but with out Aaron, there is no RBF. The band formed to have fun and make music, not be graded like a term paper.
[/quote1233288199]

[madamadam]

Fancy Aarom much?

[The Wind]

This feels like circles.

[Seamus]

[quote1233296323=LyinAss Bitch]
For lack of a better way to put it…Aaron pretty much is the band. If everyone excluding Aaron quit, there can always be a replacement, and it would still be RBF, but with out Aaron, there is no RBF. The band formed to have fun and make music, not be graded like a term paper.
[/quote1233296323]
[i]If[/i] everyone excluding Aaron quit?

[CannonBall]

[/quote1233283292]

For lack of a better way to put it…Aaron pretty much is the band. If everyone excluding Aaron quit, there can always be a replacement, and it would still be RBF, but with out Aaron, there is no RBF. The band formed to have fun and make music, not be graded like a term paper.
[/quote1233298046]

I have to agree with you there, have you heard the new Queen album? It's a disrespect to use that name without Freddie Mercury.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1233344723=CannonBall]
[/quote1233283292]

For lack of a better way to put it…Aaron pretty much is the band. If everyone excluding Aaron quit, there can always be a replacement, and it would still be RBF, but with out Aaron, there is no RBF. The band formed to have fun and make music, not be graded like a term paper.
[/quote1233298046]

I have to agree with you there, have you heard the new Queen album? It's a disrespect to use that name without Freddie Mercury.
[/quote1233344723]

thank you, thank you so much, fucking truth. the way I see it Queen was like a hive mind…. you lose one of the four and it becomes a shit wagon, and has.

[Desensitized]

Honestly, your RXB point is pretty dead on. I didn't like their last album, because it sounded like them vanishing up their ass. Because they had no producer to tell them they were jerking their instruments off.

Dude, I'd give up trying to convince anyone a producer won't put Aaron over a table and fuck his ass if I were you. Apparently that's all producers do if you listen to anyone around here.

Apparently, Everything Sucks was a better album than TTRO, if producers suck.

[The Wind]

HUURRRR TWO THREE FOUR! HURRRRR TWO THREE FOUR!

[Seamus]

I see no issue to counting a song off that way

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1233355253=Desensitized]
Apparently, Everything Sucks was a better album than TTRO, if producers suck.
[/quote1233355253]

lack of teach and experience are what made ES shitty, Aaron now has Tech and Experience.

[Desensitized]

If WNHTYNH is any indication, I disagree strongly.

[madamadam]

Seriously what is wrong with all of you? Just wait until the album's released and THEN we'll discuss whether a producer was necessary or not – have a bit of neutrality.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1233373565=Desensitized]
If WNHTYNH is any indication, I disagree strongly.
[/quote1233373565]

I said "Aaron NOW has tech and experience"

[Desensitized]

I'm willing to wait and see what he does on the next album, I'm just saying that from what I've heard, I'm not sure he can pull it off.

[Surly]

The guitar sound is quite muddy on FFF. I'd really rather see someone else help based on that recording.

[CannonBall]

[quote1233422551=madamadam]
Seriously what is wrong with all of you? Just wait until the album's released and THEN we'll discuss whether a producer was necessary or not – have a bit of neutrality.
[/quote1233422551]

No way, it's much better to make our arguments now, this way we can come back and quote ourselves as being right when the album is released.

As for Queen.
There were a couple parts on that album where the guitar still sounded good, but that's about it. I had to buy it off a russian website for $2 because it wasn't out in the U.S. iTunes store yet, thank god! Freddie Mercury must be rolling in his grave. The only reason they are still using that name is for recognition, it would take too long for them to make money if they changed it to King or something.

Oh, dudes, wouldn't it have been rad if there was a band called King in the 80's? Then King, Queen, and Prince could have all played a show together!

[Sonic Libido]

and a comedian named jester could have opened

[The Wind]

Lame.

[Sonic Libido]

jeez, yeah, sorry

[Desensitized]

Don't cower to him!

[Sonic Libido]

FUCK ALL YOU GUYS!

[The Wind]

Don't be a cheddar

[LyinAss Bitch]

^^^words to live by.

[Sonic Libido]

cheddar is dead.

[Seamus]

cheddar?

[The Wind]

It's cheese, idiot.

[Desensitized]

A former mod gone batshit insane. He's the reason we don't have any mods around here. (Not like we needed them anyway)

[Seamus]

[quote1233771275=The Wind]
It's cheese, idiot.
[/quote1233771275]

Damn, I keep forgetting

[jrock241]

I really think a producer would help on the next RBF album. There is some confusion as to what a producer does, because every producer takes a different approach.

Take Rick Rubin for example. He may not even go into the studio until 5-7 songs are completed and say "the 3rd song you showed me is a keeper". There's no agruement, no constructive criticism of the other songs, they simply aren't good enough and the band needs to write a lot more from which he'll stop into the studio for an hour or so again to hand select a few more and repeat this until a cd's worth have been choosen. Now to me, that's crazy. But it must work because almost everything he touches turns into gold.

Most producers aren't that style but I'm just saying it can vary depending on the person. Most won't throw away almost perfect songs. Most will try to take the songs that aren't great and get the person responsible for the songs to make them great. Aaron may think he's done a perfect job on a song, but the producer will then challenge his thinking and say "lets try this instead" which may work and it may not. But to have that outsider looking in is priceless, and it's not that the producer makes the song better, the producer makes the writer make it better.

[The Wind]

but who to make a rbf song betr than rbf themselves lololololoolololololol?

[Sonic Libido]

I'm having a hard time understanding why that doesn't make sense to you…

the reason RBF doesn't have a producer and doesn't need one is because Aaron has never liked being told what to do… even if they had a producer, I seriously doubt (at this point, since aaron knows he can just do it himself) it would make a difference….. the producer would say "Why don't we try this" and aaron would tell him to go fuck himself

I have a feeling we won't se non-aaron producers on the albums and frankly I'm relived

I just want to hear RBF songs that RBF makes… not songs RBF wrote that got fucked with by some guy who has no idea how their supposed to sound…

I mean, the way we're hearing them now is how Aaron (the writer) want;s them to sound… why would you want anything else then the song how it's supposed to be?

…it just seems…. I don't know… stupid.

[The Wind]

I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't read this topic. At all. OR know anything about the music industry.

So. Reel Big Fish is independent. That means they don't have to hire a producer. THAT means that they still can. THAT means that if they were, they could hire who they wanted. And, that means, they're not going to hire someone who a) has final say, b) they're just going to go ahead and tell them to fuck off, and c) someone who doesn't know the band at all.

Outside perspective is good. Have you ever done something, and then someone comes along and says "Hey, how about trying THIS instead?" Was your reaction to tell them to fuck off, or did you think "Hey, you're right! I just got too focused on the overall picture of what I was doing! It's a good thing someone came by to help me fine-tune some details!" If you've never thought that, chances are you're a narcissistic prick.

That's what producers do. Okay, that's what SOME producers do. And that's what the kind of producer RBF needs. Not someone to co-write, just an educated person to say "That song you wrote, Please Don't Tell Her I Have A Girlfriend? Don't even bother recording it. But that other one, Bang! The Mouse Explodes? That belongs on the album."

See how much better Monkeys would have been already?

[jrock241]

[quote1234219075=The Wind]
but who to make a rbf song betr than rbf themselves lololololoolololololol?
[/quote1234219075]

Jerry Abbott
Josh Abraham
Herb Abramson
Mark Abramson
Patrick Adams
Cisco Adler
Lou Adler
John Agnello
Chuck Ainlay
John Alagía
Chris Albertson
Steve Albini
Walt Aldridge
Gregg Alexander
Sean Alexander
Alias (artist)
All Smiles
Joe Allison
Matt Allison
Tommy Allsup
Herb Alpert
Marshall Altman
Amerie
David Anderle
Billy Anderson (music)
Pete Anderson
Johnny Andrews
Ken Andrews
D-Dot
Ron Aniello
Anthony J. Resta
Mike Appel
Dave Appell
India.Arie
Reed Arvin
Moe Asch
Chet Atkins
Atomly
Dallas Austin
Scott Austin
Steve Austin (musician)
George Avakian
Clarence Avant
John Avila
David Axelrod (musician)
Estelle Axton
Ayatollah (producer)
Jon B.
Chris Badami
Ross Bagdasarian, Sr.
Ross Bagdasarian, Jr.
Ben Bagley
Dan Baird
Arthur Baker (musician)
Jeff Balding
Glen Ballard
Gordon Banks (musician)
Brown Bannister
Camille Barbone
Chris Barbosa
Paul Barker
Stephen Barncard
Richard Barone
Steve Barri
Jeff Barry
The Basement Boys
Mark Batson
Deric Battiste
Battlecat (producer)
Matt Bayles
Beans (rapper)
Jim Beanz
Beau Burchell
Sean Beavan
Walter Becker
Barry Beckett
Michael Beinhorn
Leila Bela
Bob Belden
Al Bell
Thom Bell
Dean Benedetti
Don Benjamin
Alvin Bennett
Chico Bennett
Richard Bennett (guitarist)
Benny Blanco
Scott Benzel
Spencer Bernard
Bert Berns
Herb Bernstein
Paco Betancourt
Louis Biancaniello
Biff Blumfumgagnge
Bill Goodwin (jazz drummer)
Scott Billington
Dinky Bingham
Bink (producer)
Martin Bisi
Clint Black
Larry Blackmon
Blackout Movement
Robert Blackwell
Tchad Blake
Charles Blenzig
Kurt Bloch
Jeff Blue
Danny Blume
Bob Rosa
Doug Boehm
Curt Boettcher
Armen Boladian
Niko Bolas
Justin Boller
Maya Bond
Tony Bongiovi
Sonny Bono
J Boogie
Chuckii Booker
Bob Both
Bruce Botnick
Bill Bottrell
Brent Bourgeois
Jeff Bova
Jimmy Bowen
Ryan Bowser
Joe Boyd
John Boylan (record producer)
Owen Bradley
Braille (Bryan Winchester)
Delaney Bramlett
Stephen Bray
David Briggs (producer)
David Briggs (American musician)
Kevin "She'kspere" Briggs
Jon Brion
Craig Brockman
Brian Bromberg
Matt Bronleewe
Robert Green Brooks
The Brothers (producers)
Darrell Brown (musician)
James Brown
Jonathan David Brown
Michael Brown (writer)
Tony Brown (record producer)
Venus Brown
Denny Bruce
Trey Bruce
Ted Bruner
Tim Buckley
Bud'da
Norton Buffalo
Jim Burgess (producer)
Keni Burke
T-Bone Burnett
Scott Burns (producer)
Gary Burr
Butcher Bros.
Nate Butler
Hillous Butrum
Ray Buttigieg
Daniel Buxton
Marc Byrd
C. Renegade
CX KiDTRONiK
Scott Cable
Ken Caillat
Mario Caldato, Jr.
Charles Calello
Jasper Cameron
Tony Camillo
Rob Campanella
Mike Campbell
Warryn Campbell
Buddy Cannon
Don Cannon
Jesse Cannon
Nick Cannon
Joey Cape
Arnold S. Caplin
Billy Cardine
Joe Carducci
Mariah Carey
Chris Carter (producer/disc jockey)
Johnny Fred Carter
Alec Cartio
Peter Case
Harry Wayne Casey
John Carter Cash
Terry Cashman
Buzz Cason
David Castell
Russ Castella
Brian Castillo
JT Castillo
Steve Caton
Felix Cavaliere
Rob Cavallo
Mister Cee
Gustavo Celis
Channel 7 (musician)
Charles Dye
Samuel Charters
JC Chasez
David T. Chastain
Cher
Yury G. Chernavsky
Travis Cherry
Marshall Chess
Chic (band)
Joe Chicarelli
Alex Chilton
Jae Chong
Chris Carter (record producer/mixer)
Chris Grainger
Chris Christian
Gavin Christopher
Ciara
Mike City
Mike E. Clark
Gilby Clarke
Bob Clearmountain
Jack Clement
Clifton "Jiggs" Chase
Mike Clink
George Clinton (musician)
Robert Clivillés
Steven Cloud
DJ Clue
Charles Cobb
Ed Cobb
Anita Cochran
Paul Cohen (producer)
David Cole (producer)
Jude Cole
Paula Cole
Colin C. Allrich
Colin Cobb
Kimball Collins
Bobby Colomby
John Congleton
Christopher "F.L.O." Conner
Monte Conner
Con Conrad
Conya Doss
Deborah Cooper
Nick Cooper
Miles Copeland III
John Corbett (writer)
Rich Costey
Count Bass D
Kurt "Kobane" Couthon
Joey Covington
Bryan-Michael Cox
Luigi Creatore
Bob Crewe
Rodney Crowell
Janice Cruz
CunninLynguists
Mike Curb
Michael Cuscuna
Zulema
John Custer
Scott Cutler
André Cymone
DJ Clay
DJ Day
DJ Deeon
DJ Funk
DJ Godfather
DJ Infamous
DJ Premier
DJ Scientific
DJ Smash
DJ Toomp
DJ U-Neek
DJ Wrekk
Pappy Daily
Dame Grease
Damizza
Danger Mouse
Danja
Danny!
Ron Dante
Joe Darone
Richard Dashut
Terry Date
Derri Daugherty
Dave Dresden
Billy Davis (songwriter)
Clive Davis
Lionell Davis
Maxwell Davis
De'Angelo Wilson
Brian Deck
DeLon
ED Denson
Amir Derakh
Joe DeRenzo
Lawrence Dermer
Russ DeSalvo
Jimmy Destri
Kurt Deutsch
Sidney DeWayne
Andrew Diamond
Jim Diamond (music producer)
Diaz Brothers
Travis Dickerson
Jim Dickinson
Nick DiDia
James Diener
Paul Dieter
Clark Dimond
Dino (singer)
Don Dixon (musician)
Willie Dixon
Mark Dodson
Domino (producer)
Joel Dorn
Double Dee and Steinski
Alan Douglas (record producer)
Chip Douglas
Jack Douglas (record producer)
Jimmy Douglass
Tom Dowd
Mark Doyon
Lamont Dozier
Bob Drake (musician)
Pete Drake
George Drakoulias
Dre & Vidal
Bruce Driscoll
Donald "Duck" Dunn
Jermaine Dupri
Paul Durham
Dust Brothers
Adam Dutkiewicz
Dyloot
E-A-Ski
Luke Ebbin
Jimmy Edgar
Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds
Bernard Edwards
Esmond Edwards
Phil Ek
Frankie El Jefe
Jonathan Elias
Anye Elite
Rachel Elkind-Tourre
Ray Ellis
Peter Elman
Kevin Elson
Justin Emerle
Eminem
Eric Emm
Jack Endino
Jack Endino's recording discography
Scott English
Lorne Entress
Jason "Jay E" Epperson
Howie Epstein
Andy Ernst
Tim Eschliman
Allan Evans (producer)
Faith Evans
Lee Evans (producer)
Edan Everly
Exile (producer)
Fabo
Faceboy
Tony Fagenson
Ron Fair
Jim Fairchild
Jay Faires
Keith Farley
Wes Farrell
John Feldmann
Felix da Housecat
Sid Feller
DJ Felli Fel
Joe Fields (producer)
John Fields (producer)
Frank Filipetti
Carl Finch
Fingazz
Doctor Fink
Jerry Finn
Frank Fitzpatrick
Don Fleming (musician)
Flex&Hated
Mike Flicker
Jerome Fontamillas
Willa Ford
Lawrence Fordyce
DJ Forest Green
Dave Fortman
Foster & McElroy
Fred Foster
Kim Fowley
Paul Fox (producer)
Petey Franchise
Brian French
Steve Freund
Jeff Freundlich
Dave Fridmann
Fritz the Cat (producer)
Mitchell Froom
John Fry (record producer)
Chris Fudurich
Jerry Fuller
Garth Fundis
Tret Fure
Ethel Gabriel
Josh Gabriel
Wally Gagel
Fred Gaisberg
Eddie Galan
Stephan Galfas
Byron Gallimore
Albhy Galuten
Gamble and Huff
Don Gant
Val Garay
Pedro Garcia (producer)
Brian Gardner
McKay Garner
Sean Garrett
Snuff Garrett
Javier Garza
Humberto Gatica
Timmy Gatling
Bob Gaudio
Richard Gavalis
Erik Gavriluk
Marvin Gaye
Bob Geddins
Don Gehman
Peter Gelb
Gene Page
Sergio George
Geri King
Scott Gerow
Serban Ghenea
Walter Gibbons
Debbie Gibson
Quinton Gibson
Scott McKay Gibson
Verna Gillis
Don Gilmore
Jimmie Dale Gilmore
Voyle Gilmore
Kenny Gioia
Lou Giordano
Glass ghost
Daniel Glass
Dick Glasser
Lloyd Glenn
Henry Glover
Erik Godal
Dito Godwin
Andrew Gold
Barry Goldberg
Matt Goldman (record producer)
George Goldner
Shep Goodman
John Goodmanson
Jay Gordon
Berry Gordy
Emory Gordy, Jr.
Kerry Gordy
Gorilla Tek
Arthur Gorson
Chris Goss
Richard Gottehrer
Irv Gotti
Billy Gould
Katerina Graham
Gerry Granahan
Norman Granz
Grap Luva
Anthony Gravino
Jay Graydon
Doug Grean
Matt Green (musician)
Roger Greenawalt
Steve Greenberg (record producer)
Ryan Greene
Ellie Greenwich
Louis L. Gregory
Eric Greif
Billy Griffin
J Chris Griffin
James William Guercio
Frank Guida
Tom Gulotta
Brett Gurewitz
Gary G-Wiz
Janek Gwizdala
Stephen Hague
Dave Hall (record producer)
Bill Ham
Anthony Hamilton (musician)
Diane Hamilton
Joel Hamilton
Roy "Royalty" Hamilton
Samantha Hammel
John H. Hammond
Barry Hankerson
Kip Hanrahan
Chris Hanzsek
Larry Harlow (musician)
Mark Harmon (musician)
Norman Harris
Jerry Harrison
Rich Harrison
Dan Hartman
Derrick Harvin
Donny Hathaway
Chris Hawkes
Isaac Hayes III
Lee Hazlewood
Mark Heard
Paul Heck
Jason Heinrichs
Christian Hejnal
Fred Hellerman
Herb Hendler
Belford Hendricks
Scott Hendricks
Jennifer Herrema
Dennis Herring
David Hilker
Beau Hill
Jason Hill
Steve Hindalong
Truc Ho
Tony Hoffer
Brian Holland
Edward Holland, Jr.
Sam Hollander
Jac Holzman
Nikki Hornsby
Paul Hornsby
Israel Horowitz (producer)
Whitney Houston
Bones Howe
David Miles Huber
Eric Hudson
Mark Hudson
Rod Hui
Billy Hume
Scott Humphrey
Van Hunt
Ivy Jo Hunter
Jeff Huskins
Leroy Hutson
Ted Hutt
L. T. Hutton
Tor Hyams
Jimmy Ienner
Jimmy Iovine
Loren Israel
Stevie J
Eric J
Cordell Jackson
Janet Jackson
Mark Jackson (producer)
Marlon Jackson
Michael Jackson
Randy Jackson
Rodney Jackson
Dick Jacobs
Erik Jacobsen
Jake and the Phatman
Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis
Brett James
Tim James (music producer)
Rick James
Roosevelt Jamison
Eli Janney (musician)
John Jansen (producer)
John Jaszcz
Jay Baumgardner
Jay-J
Jay-Z
Jazzy Jay
Jeff Glixman
Carl Jefferson
Jel
John Jennings (musician)
Lyfe Jennings
Ted Jensen
Dave Jerden
Fred Jerkins III
Jerry Riopelle
Jim Jonsin
Joe (singer)
John Davis and the Monster Orchestra
John McEntire
Johnny K
Aaron Johnson (musician)
General Norman Johnson
Nathaniel Johnson
Bob Johnston
David Jude Jolicoeur
Jon Monday
Jondi & Spesh
Allen Jones (record producer)
Donell Jones
Gloria Jones
Leslie Ann Jones
Quincy Jones
Stacy Jones
Steve Jordan (musician)
Jorge Calderón
Jeffrey K.
K-Def
K-Rab
David Kahne
Keezo Kane
Janice Karman
Kashif (musician)
Adam Kasper
Tolga Katas
Gary Katz
Yuri Katz
Matthew King Kaufman
Kawan "KP" Prather
Justin Kawashima
Sonny Kay
Barry Miller Kaye
Lenny Kaye
Bob Keane
John Keane (record producer)
Theodore Keep
Brian Kehew
Keith Thomas (producer)
Ben Keith
Gary Kellgren
R. Kelly
Ken Mansfield
Don Kent
Anita Kerr
Ron Kersey
David Kershenbaum
Kevin Kadish
Alicia Keys
Khia
Wes Kidd
Buddy Killen
Bruce Kimmel
Kimo Kaulani
John King (producer)
Ronnie King
Don Kirshner
KJ-52
Bill Klatt
KLC
Gary Klein (producer)
Larry Klein
Frederick Knight (singer)
Suge Knight
Terry Knight
Knobody
Beyoncé Knowles
Paul Q. Kolderie
Paul Kostabi
Kount Fif
Kovas
Robert Kraft (composer)
Eddie Kramer
Mark Kramer
Lenny Kravitz
Jonathan Kreinik
Andy Kubiszewski
Gary Kurfirst
Greg Kurstin
John Kurzweg
Kush Arora
L.E.S. (producer)
LRoc
Gary LaBarr
Greg Ladanyi
Greg Landau
Jon Landau
Donn Landee
Tim Landers
George Landress
Michael Lange
Frankie LaRocka
Amel Larrieux
Brian Larsen
Denise LaSalle
Adam Lasus
Bill Laswell
Laurent Cohen
Rhett Lawrence
Laylaw
Randy Layton
Paul Leary
Rod Lee
Howard Leese
The Legendary Traxster
Josh Leo (musician)
Craig Leon
Patrick Leonard
Ryan Leslie
John Leventhal
Joey Levine
Larry Levine
Stewart Levine
Aaron Levinson
Daniel Levitin
Gennessee Lewis
Rob Lewis
Sarah Lewitinn
David Libert
Libretto chief
Max Avery Lichtenstein
Goddard Lieberson
Shelly Liebowitz
Lil' C
Kevin Liles
Arto Lindsay
Mark Linett
Miriam Linna
Linus Of Hollywood
Sandy Linzer and Denny Randell
Alfred Lion
Tommy LiPuma
Scott Litt
Lonnie Ratliff
Shaun Lopez
Michael Lord (music)
Tom Lord-Alge
Christopher Lorenzo
Johnny Love
Bernie Lowe
Lucas Secon
Reggie Lucas
Lucian Piane
Jaye Luckett
LeToya Luckett
Dr. Luke
Terry Lupton
Stan Lynch
Alex MacDougall
Teo Macero
Phil Madeira
Madlib
Lee Magid
Fred Maher
Dan Maimone
Major Matt Mason USA
Malay (producer)
Peter Malick
Earle Mankey
Billy Mann
Terry Manning
Kurtis Mantronik
Ray Manzarek
Wade Marcus
Arif Mardin
Joe Mardin
Robert Margouleff
Ben Margulies
Teena Marie
Lou Marini
Mark Capps
Mark Schatz
Steve Marker
Clair Marlo
Jerry Marotta
Athan Maroulis
Trade Martin
Tucker Martine
Jasun Martz
Vincent Mason
Kedar Massenburg
Michael Masser
Sylvia Massy
Master P
Masters At Work
Cosimo Matassa
Mateo & Matos
Rob Mathes
Eddie Matos (musician)
The Matrix (record production team)
Matthew Hager
Matthew Katz
Michael Mauldin (producer)
Curtis Mayfield
Jody Mayfield
Tim McAllister
Mac McAnally
McFadden & Whitehead
Gene McFadden
David McGarry
Brian McKnight
Billy McLaughlin
Lillian McMurry
Dugan McNeill
Brian McTernan
E.D.I. Mean
Meco
Mr. J. Medeiros
Hank Medress
Medway (producer)
Terry Melcher
Lester Melrose
Lester Mendez
Kelvin Mercer
Lewis Merenstein
Ellis Miah
Micayle Mckinney
Michael Stewart (musician)
James Michael
Dan Michaels
Midi Mafia
Midnight Black
Miguel Migs
Mike Daly
Christina Milian
Buddy Miller
Dave Miller (producer)
J. D. "Jay" Miller
Jimmy Miller
Mitch Miller
Steven Miller
Brent Milligan
June Millington
Paul Miner
Rickey Minor
George Mitchell (music historian)
Willie Mitchell (musician)
Mizell Brothers
Mobonix
Multiman
Frazier Mohawk
Chips Moman
Bob Montgomery (musician)
Chris Moore (producer/audio engineer)
René Moore
Steve Moore (musician/producer)
Michael Morales (musician)
Richard Morel
Brian Alexander Morgan
Alanis Morissette
Gurf Morlix
Doug Morris
Shadow Morton
Roli Mosimann
J. Moss
Jerry Moss
Bob Mould
Tom Moulton
Rob Mounsey
Sylvia Moy
Muhsinah
Ben Mumphrey
Marty Munsch
Andrew Murdock
Dwayne Murphy
James Murphy (electronic musician)
Rian Murphy
Juggy Murray
Frank J. Myers
Myrus Jones
Napoleon XIV
Syd Nathan
Mason Neely
Greg Nelson (producer)
Ken Nelson (United States record producer)
The Neptunes
Bob Neuwirth
Tom Newman (musician, producer)
Nguyen Cao Ky Duyen
Hayden Nicholas
James P. Nichols
Lynn Nichols
Roger Nichols (recording engineer)
Nick Sansano
Filip Nikolic
Nitti (producer)
Jack Nitzsche
No I.D.
Vada Nobles
Paul Northfield
Novel (musician)
Rick Nowels
Oak (producer)
Brendan O'Brien (music producer)
Ric Ocasek
St. Louis Jimmy Oden
Sean O'Keefe (producer)
Milt Okun
Tommy Oliver (musician)
Keith Olsen
Michael Omartian
Paul O'Neill (rock producer)
Barbara Orbison
Bobby Orlando
Robert Ellis Orrall
Shuggie Otis
Owsley (musician)
PAJAM
Marty Paich
Andy Paley
Robert Palmer (writer)
Henry Panion
Thom Panunzio
Felix Pappalardi
Robin Pappas
Rick Parashar
Dawaun Parker
Ray Parker, Jr.
Cameron Michael Parkes
Parthenon Huxley
Joseph Patrych
Alexandra Patsavas
Michael Patterson (producer)
Paul C
Brian Paulson
George Paulus
Gary S. Paxton
George Paxton
Sir Arthur Payson
Charlie Peacock
Lou Pearlman
Sandy Pearlman
Darryl Pearson
Ralph Peer
Shelly Peiken
Michael Penn
Bill Pere
Hugo Peretti
Rudy Perez
Alex Perialas
Dave Perkins (guitarist)
Marvin Perkins
Freddie Perren
Gordon Perry
Linda Perry
Richard Perry
John Petrucci
Shep Pettibone
Norman Petty
Craig Peyton
Darrin Pfeiffer
Pharrell Williams
Sam Phillips
Stu Phillips (composer)
Mark Picchiotti
Harve Pierre
Felton Pilate
Mark Pistel
Shaun Pizzonia
Plan B (producer/musician)
Mark Plati
Richard Podolor
Neil Portnow
Mike Portnoy
Michael J. Powell
Millard Powers
James Poyser
Mark Prator
Prince Markie Dee
Dan Prothero
PSD (rapper)
John Purdell
Bill Putnam
Norbert Putnam
Mike Puwal
Wardell Quezergue
Darin Raffaelli
Jerry Ragovoy
Bonnie Raitt
Ralfi Pagan
Don Ralke
Eddie Rambeau
Phil Ramone
Tommy Ramone
Fred Ramsey
Lee Ranaldo
Gordon Raphael
Doug Rasheed
Nick Raskulinecz
David Rawlings
Ray Reach
Shawty Redd
Russ Regan
L. A. Reid
John Reis
Brian Reitzell
Remot
Henri René
Carl Restivo
Grey Revell
Daniel Rey
Allen Reynolds
Trent Reznor
Taylor Rhodes
Victor Rice
Tony Rich
Deke Richards
Lionel Richie
Rick Rock
David Ricketts
Geoff Rickly
Steve Ripley
Johnny Rivers
Carmen Rizzo
Bruce Robb (producer)
Dante Roberson
Don Robey
John Robie
Jack Robinson (songwriter and music publisher)
Ross Robinson
Sharon Robinson (songwriter)
Smokey Robinson
Sylvia Robinson
Rodney Jerkins
Michael Roe
Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers
Frank Rogers (record producer)
Ken Rogers
Roy Rogers (guitarist)
Christopher Rojas
Frank Romano
Richie Rome
Cory Rooney
Ralphi Rosario
Ed Rose
Wesley Rose
Larry Rosen (producer)
Eric Rosse
J. R. Rotem
Paul A. Rothchild
Hahn Rowe
Steve Rowland (record producer)
Roy Z
Glenn Rubenstein
Rick Rubin
Kevin Rudolf
Richard Rudolph
Todd Rundgren
Art Rupe
Bob Rupe
Bob Rusch
Bryan Russell
Ross Russell
Erik Rutan
Joshua Ryan
Paul Sabu
Alex Sadkin
Ron Saint Germain
Ralph Sall
Bob Sallese
Frank Salvato II
Paul Salveson
Ruwanga Samath
Chink Santana
Mike Sapone
Joe Saraceno
Dave Sardy
David Sardy
Art Satherly
DJ Satisfaction
Ann Savoy
Jimmy Scalia
Warren Schatz
Ben Schigel
Don Schlitten
Rob Schnapf
Ian Scott (producer)
Manuel Seal, Jr.
Chris Seefried
Michael Seifert (producer)
Mark Selby (musician)
Dan Sembello
Danny Seraphine
Matt Serletic
Bob Shad
James Shaffer
Robert Shahnazarian
Noah Shain
Tupac Shakur
Siavash Shams
Wayne Shanklin
John Shanks
Nat Shapiro
Sharam
Harold Shedd
Rob Shelby
Louis Shelton
Thomas Z. Shepard
Billy Sherrill
Edward Shimborske III
Robert Shimp
Kia Shine
Mike Shinoda
Trina Shoemaker
Stephen H. Sholes
Bobby Shriver
Bunny Sigler
DJ Signify
Ely E. "Si" Siman, Jr.
Daryl Simmons
John Simon (record producer)
Michael Simpson (producer)
Rena Sinakin
Shelby Singleton
Sir Jinx
David Andrew Sitek
Jack Skurnick
Sean Slade
Jamie Slocum
Anthony Smith (songwriter)
Floyd Soileau
Steven Soles
Scott Solter
Tim Sommer
Soul Diggaz
Soulquarians
The Soulseekers
Cipha Sounds
Joe South
Caleb Southern
Phil Spector
Spectre (musician)
Nick Speed
Bruce Spencer
Mark Spiro
Spot (producer)
Cory Spotts
Richard K. Spottswood
Devo Springsteen
Aaron Sprinkle
Trey Spruance
Red Spyda
Matt Squire
Stephen St. Croix
Maurice Starr
Ed Stasium
Jeremy Staska
Static Revenger
Keith Stegall
Seymour Stein
Jim Steinman
Philip Steir
Eric Stenman
Stephen Tirpak
Carl Stephenson (producer)
Liam Sternberg
Steve Anderson (musician)
William "Mickey" Stevenson
Christopher Stewart (music producer)
Jim Stewart (music)
Nisan Stewart
Shakir Stewart
Stircrazy
Chris Stokes
Angie Stone
Henry Stone
Sly Stone
Scott Storch
Steve Stoute
Craig Street
James Stroud
Patrick Stump
Style Misia
Mark Sudack
Al B. Sure!
Bobby Susser
Glenn Sutton
Swamp Dogg
Phillip Swann
Keith Sweat
Leon Sylvers III
Bill Szymczyk
Sean T
Shel Talmy
Bobby Taylor & the Vancouvers
Creed Taylor
Ojo Taylor
Terry Scott Taylor
Troy Taylor (producer)
Tedd T
Ryan Tedder
Teddy Gentry
Ted Templeman
Ernie Terrell
Tha Cornaboyz
Marty Thau
Bob Thiele
Kit Thomas
Antwan "Amadeus" Thompson
Steve Thompson (musician)
Thuy Nga
T.I.
Wharton Tiers
Timbaland
Russ Titelman
Jon Tiven
Todd Tobias
Bryan Todd
Tony Black (music producer)
Allen Toussaint
Eric Townsend
Jason Townsend
Lee Townsend
T-Pain
Trackmasters
Trey Told 'Em
Trilogy Productions
Mark Trombino
Justin Trosper
Roger Troutman
True Master
Dave Trumfio
Tuan Anh
Ike Turner
Jeff Turzo
Stephanie Tyrell
Badru Umi
Dick Urine
Gary Usher
Michael Utley
Sam Valenti IV
Eric Valentine
Leonardo Valvassori
Armand Van Helden
Steven Van Zandt
Daven "Prestige" Vanderpool
Luther Vandross
Mike Varney
Junior Vasquez
Frankie Vega
V cont.
Nick Venet
Butch Vig
Sal Villanueva
Johnny Vincent
Kyle Vincent
Tony Visconti
Claude VonStroke
Andrew W.K.
Waddy Wachtel
Ric Wake
Narada Michael Walden
Mark Walk
Butch Walker
Joe Louis Walker
Robert Walker (musician)
Scott Walker (singer)
Jeremy Wall
Chris Walla
Andy Wallace (producer)
Matt Wallace
James Walsh (record producer)
Asaph Ward
Leon Ware
Lenny Waronker
Simon Waronker
David Was
Don Was
Jody Watley
Rob Watson
Gregg Wattenberg
Sam Watters
Dave Way
Fee Waybill
Artie Wayne
Fred Weintraub
Andrew Weiss (guitarist)
Hy Weiss
Pete Welding
J. Wells
Meech Wells
Tom Werman
Ben West (musician, producer)
Kanye West
Jerry Wexler
Harold Wheeler (musician)
Mark Whitaker (music producer)
Maurice White
John Whitehead (singer)
Norman Whitfield
George Whitty
Ulrich Wild
Matthew Wilder
D'Extra Wiley
Ethan Wiley
Sue G. Wilkinson
Will.i.am
Deniece Williams
Desmond Williams
J. Mayo Williams
James Williamson (musician)
Hal Willner
Brian Wilson
Bryce Wilson
Darleen Wilson
Frank Wilson (musician)
Murry Wilson
Norro Wilson
Thom Wilson
Tom Wilson (producer)
Wally Wilson
Angela Winbush
James Paul Wisner
Jimmy Wisner
Joe Wissert
Brian Witkin
Wizardz of Oz
Peter Wolf (producer)
Francis Wolff
Bobby Womack
Stevie Wonder
Brad Wood
Jeffery Wood
Lyle Workman
Paul Worley
Bill Wray (composer)
Betty Wright
James "Big Jim" Wright
Toby Wright
Craig Wuest
Jyro Xhan
Jerry Yester
Yogi (producer)
Hans York
Young Blaze
Kenny Young
Younglord
Jerome T. Youngman
Bobby Z.
Robert W. Zachary
Michael Zager

But that's jsut a few that I can name off the top of my head. :p

[Seamus]

Producers?

[jrock241]

Yes Seamus. 1,370 I think.

[quote]
I'm having a hard time understanding why that doesn't make sense to you…

the reason RBF doesn't have a producer and doesn't need one is because Aaron has never liked being told what to do…[/quote]

Think about this as a football team. Brett Favre doesn't like being told what to do so he doesn't need a coach? Imagine a team playing without an outsider telling them what they see wrong.

[quote]even if they had a producer, I seriously doubt (at this point, since aaron knows he can just do it himself) it would make a difference….. the producer would say "Why don't we try this" and aaron would tell him to go fuck himself

I have a feeling we won't se non-aaron producers on the albums and frankly I'm relived

I just want to hear RBF songs that RBF makes… not songs RBF wrote that got fucked with by some guy who has no idea how their supposed to sound…

I mean, the way we're hearing them now is how Aaron (the writer) want;s them to sound… why would you want anything else then the song how it's supposed to be?[/quote]

So you don't like TTRO and White Thrash because somebody told Aaron that the breakdown in trendy was too jazzy. And I Want Your Girlfriend's break down was changed also, there for the song is now bad?

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1234222336=The Wind]
I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't read this topic. At all. OR know anything about the music industry.

So. Reel Big Fish is independent. That means they don't have to hire a producer. THAT means that they still can. THAT means that if they were, they could hire who they wanted. And, that means, they're not going to hire someone who a) has final say, b) they're just going to go ahead and tell them to fuck off, and c) someone who doesn't know the band at all.

Outside perspective is good. Have you ever done something, and then someone comes along and says "Hey, how about trying THIS instead?" Was your reaction to tell them to fuck off, or did you think "Hey, you're right! I just got too focused on the overall picture of what I was doing! It's a good thing someone came by to help me fine-tune some details!" If you've never thought that, chances are you're a narcissistic prick.

That's what producers do. Okay, that's what SOME producers do. And that's what the kind of producer RBF needs. Not someone to co-write, just an educated person to say "That song you wrote, Please Don't Tell Her I Have A Girlfriend? Don't even bother recording it. But that other one, Bang! The Mouse Explodes? That belongs on the album."

See how much better Monkeys would have been already?
[/quote1234222336]

I've read every post in ths topic and take classes in music business I Am also prepping to go to college for music production.

what I'm saying is, at this point, since Aaron (Aaron Barrett, he writes the songs for a band called "Reel Big Fish"… you probably wouldn't like them because the don't have producers mess with their sound) knows how to produce he wouldn't fucking listen to a producer anyway, and why should he? invite some coach on to tell him how the songs he wrote should sound? aaron's beyond that… he doesn't need suggestions, he knows what he wants to do.

here I go, once again….. RBF are going to do shit by themselves from now on, it's more natural for them, they don't need help, I don't know, I like the new album, If you don't like it I have a feeling you're going to be dissapointed for a while.

because, looking at it from a musicians standpoint, If I could produce my own albums and make them the way I want to, There's no fucking way i'd hire some guy to tell me how my songs should sound…

you say they need a produce who knows RBF really well? who fucking knows RBF better than RBF?

[jrock241]

[quote]If I could produce my own albums and make them the way I want to, There's no fucking way i'd hire some guy to tell me how my songs should sound

I Am also prepping to go to college for music production[/quote]

You should put that first line on your business card.

[quote]aaron's beyond that… [/quote] Yet Metallica, Blink-182, No Doubt aren't quite there yet, that's why they still use producers?

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1234224048=jrock241]
Yes Seamus. 1,370 I think.
So you don't like TTRO and White Thrash because somebody told Aaron that the breakdown in trendy was too jazzy. And I Want Your Girlfriend's break down was changed also, there for the song is now bad?
[/quote1234224048]

you have no way of knowing who changed the breakdowns and It sounds as though arron him self did, my groups and I change huge chunks of songs all the time, songs change over time, when you write a song you constantly re-write in your head, plus, aaron had the ES versions of those tracks to go by.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1234224279=jrock241]
[quote]If I could produce my own albums and make them the way I want to, There's no fucking way i'd hire some guy to tell me how my songs should sound

I Am also prepping to go to college for music production[/quote]

You should put that first line on your business card.

[b]yes, so I can be a producer for bands that don't consist of producers[/b]

[quote]aaron's beyond that… [/quote] Yet Metallica, Blink-182, No Doubt aren't quite there yet, that's why they still use producers?

[b] A.) could you have named a good band? [/b]
[b]B.) No Doubt, Metallica, And ….. B-Blink-182? really? …out of all the bands that use producers they were in the top 3?…. anyway, they don't have producers IN THE BAND! RBF do, they have some3one in the group that fits the bill[/b]
[/quote1234224279]

[jrock241]

YOU also have no way of saying that Aaron made those changes to the break downs.

I understand that art is subject but can you say you'll ever sell a tenth of the albums any of those bands have.
And yes they do have producers in the band. Mark Hoppus' list of producing is quite long for the short amount of time he has to spend on other people's projects. And No Doubt has Tony Kanal, who I'd use in a second if offered. Yet they are both smart enough to know that an outsider is best for the band. Otherwise you end up with a control freak who admits that he is mad when somebody gets writers' credit on a song. [Aaron mentions this on the 1st DVD commentary]

[The Wind]

[quote1234225869=Sonic Libido]

you say they need a produce who knows RBF really well? who fucking knows RBF better than RBF?

[/quote1234225869]

Stop saying that. You're not listening.

Outsider perspective has nothing to do with someone else knowing them better. Obviously. Well, it would seem obviously.

If you don't see the importance of a producer, why the hell do you think you can be one?

[CannonBall]

Just because Aaron knows how to jerk himself off better than anyone else doesn't mean that it's better than sex.

A band without a producer is like a group jerkoff session, with a producer it's a group orgy.

Just because you know how to do something, doesn't mean that you're better qualified than anyone else.

Aaron would probably do a great job producing my bands album, he'd have lots of outside opinions.

Aaron will have no outside opinions if he produces the next RBF album himself. Therefore he will most likely be rehashing the same ideas that he's always had. No matter how great of a musician you are, it's easy to get lost in your own ideas.

They can do what they want, but if they don't think it will hurt them as a band they are wrong. Just because they don't have a label anymore, doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want. They still have to please the fans, and as you can see, we are more critical than any record company can be.

I have been a fan since 1996, and I'm just about done with RBF. I've grown up, but I still feel like they are in high school. I would like some musical development like the RxBandits. There is no reason that RBF couldn't expand their style to something more mature, but how will they do that without some outside ears?

I think the bottom line is that, without a record company making them miserable, RBF aren't going to write the same kind of songs.

Listen to the anger and passion in Aaron's singing on Cheer Up, he hated it, but it came through in his singing very emotionally. Then WNHTYNH went a little too far, but I think if there was a producer involved, he could have channeled Aaron's hate in the right direction.

FFF, Aaron is happy and content, he sounds like a high school kid again, and without that anger, RBF just aren't the same. I hate to say it, but unless Aaron is miserable, RBF won't be the same band. Maybe he'll read all this and get pissed off and write a song about it.

Either that, or he needs to write more songs like Cannibal, the best RBF song ever. It's not about anything they have written before. Does anyone know where that song came from?

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1234241795=CannonBall]
Just because Aaron knows how to jerk himself off better than anyone else doesn't mean that it's better than sex.

A band without a producer is like a group jerkoff session, with a producer it's a group orgy.

Just because you know how to do something, doesn't mean that you're better qualified than anyone else.

Aaron would probably do a great job producing my bands album, he'd have lots of outside opinions.

Aaron will have no outside opinions if he produces the next RBF album himself. Therefore he will most likely be rehashing the same ideas that he's always had. No matter how great of a musician you are, it's easy to get lost in your own ideas.

They can do what they want, but if they don't think it will hurt them as a band they are wrong. Just because they don't have a label anymore, doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want. They still have to please the fans, and as you can see, we are more critical than any record company can be.

I have been a fan since 1996, and I'm just about done with RBF. I've grown up, but I still feel like they are in high school. I would like some musical development like the RxBandits. There is no reason that RBF couldn't expand their style to something more mature, but how will they do that without some outside ears?

I think the bottom line is that, without a record company making them miserable, RBF aren't going to write the same kind of songs.

Listen to the anger and passion in Aaron's singing on Cheer Up, he hated it, but it came through in his singing very emotionally. Then WNHTYNH went a little too far, but I think if there was a producer involved, he could have channeled Aaron's hate in the right direction.

FFF, Aaron is happy and content, he sounds like a high school kid again, and without that anger, RBF just aren't the same. I hate to say it, but unless Aaron is miserable, RBF won't be the same band. Maybe he'll read all this and get pissed off and write a song about it.

Either that, or he needs to write more songs like Cannibal, the best RBF song ever. It's not about anything they have written before. Does anyone know where that song came from?
[/quote1234241795]

okay, so first you said you wanted their sound to change and become more mature and then you said you with they'd write the same types of songs…. make up your fucking mind

also, what's with the recording/sex comparisons? they were just painful to read 'cause I could tell you put alot of thought into them… overkill, dude

I'd also like to mention that if you're "Pretty much Done" with RBF because you want them to "Grow UP" you've missed the point, the music isn't supposed to be mature, it's supposed to be fun, you're supposed to be able to flip on the hi fi and have a good time, not sit around wondering what the lyrics TRULY mean…

that's what RBF are, if you wanted mature music you shoul've moved on long ago, If you'd made it to the last song "Friend Or FOE?" you'd realize what aaron's music is all about, and it's truly sad if you've "Grown Up" and can no longer sit back and enjoy the music for what it is.

that's why I love RBF…. it doesn't make me think, doesn't bum me out and never lets me down. I laugh, I dance, I feel good. that's the beauty… asking RBF to lose that is like asking AC/DC to do a concerto.

and in the end, there's absolutely NO guarantee that adding a producer would mature the sound…

I don't know, I really had very little problem with this past album…. but if you guys all hate it then go ahead and listen to RXbandits and be proud of the fact that you have completely missed the point.

[CannonBall]

[/quote1234241795]

okay, so first you said you wanted their sound to change and become more mature and then you said you with they'd write the same types of songs…. make up your fucking mind

Obviously, in an argument like this, some of my points will contradict themselves. For the most part I've been talking about the production of the albums, not the specific songs themselves, and there will be some some songs that disprove my argument. Cannibal is a great song, but Dan also helped write it. The song also got a lot better with the faster punk drums

also, what's with the recording/sex comparisons? they were just painful to read 'cause I could tell you put alot of thought into them… overkill, dude

I'm just trying to find other ways to explain it to you that you might understand. How about, it's like being a cook and only using salt to season your food, but then one day someone comes and shows you the wonderful world of cooking herbs and spices? RBF is the cook, Aaron is the salt, and a producer could be the cumin, or Mrs. Dash to their next album.

I'd also like to mention that if you're "Pretty much Done" with RBF because you want them to "Grow UP" you've missed the point, the music isn't supposed to be mature, it's supposed to be fun, you're supposed to be able to flip on the hi fi and have a good time, not sit around wondering what the lyrics TRULY mean…

Would you stop hanging out with one of your best friends, because they started acting douchey? Mature doesn't have to mean deep lyrics like the RxBandits, it can also mean Mature musically like the RxBandits. My argument is that RBF is a really good band, WDTRSH and Cheer Up! are both great musical accomplishments, in fact, they are so great musically, that you can overlook the fact that a man in his late 20's is singing about hating everyone at school. I'm not bashing the lyrics, I sing them in my car, my point there is just that the music is really strong, and I would like them to write more songs of that caliber, I know they can.

that's what RBF are, if you wanted mature music you shoul've moved on long ago, If you'd made it to the last song "Friend Or FOE?" you'd realize what aaron's music is all about, and it's truly sad if you've "Grown Up" and can no longer sit back and enjoy the music for what it is.

That's no way to support RBF if you're a loyal fan, I'm always going to hope that something impressive will come out. I used to buy all their albums they day they came out, but now I'm probably just going to wait till I can get them from a friend if it's not a golden nugget of joy

that's why I love RBF…. it doesn't make me think, doesn't bum me out and never lets me down. I laugh, I dance, I feel good. that's the beauty… asking RBF to lose that is like asking AC/DC to do a concerto.

They could still be that way, do you have a problem dancing to music that's of a higher caliber, but still the same RBF?

and in the end, there's absolutely NO guarantee that adding a producer would mature the sound…

I don't know, I really had very little problem with this past album…. but if you guys all hate it then go ahead and listen to RXbandits and be proud of the fact that you have completely missed the point.

I think the right producer WOULD make the next album better. I haven't missed the point. I know the band is happy and doing what they want to be doing now. No record company, Aaron gets to do anything he wants. George Bust was happy and got to do what he wanted to do, but that doesn't mean we got the best results out of it.

This is a hypothetical argument, it's not like Aaron is going to read this and go "oh shit, you are totally right, we should get a producer!". This is just something I brought up so I could see what other people thought, I don't know why it has to be such a negative topic for you, and why you have ot dig so deep into everything we said while trying to make our point.

[/quote1234244288]

[LyinAss Bitch]

Over it already, and I'll agree to disagree with most of you. The funny thing is none of you have a say so in the direction RBF wants to go….neener neener neener! :p

And if you quit being fans, then that's entirely up to you. They'll still be successful.

[Desensitized]

[quote1234294229=The Wind]"That song you wrote, Please Don't Tell Her I Have A Girlfriend? Don't even bother recording it. But that other one, Bang! The Mouse Explodes? That belongs on the album."

See how much better Monkeys would have been already?
[/quote1234294229]And a good Producer would have done just that. RBF needs more songs like Bang, and less songs like Girlfriend.

RBF is quickly becoming the Nickleback of ska. All their songs sound alike, with no variation in tempo, generic topics, and then there's Aaron Kroeger.

You know what the difference is? Aaron Barrett has TALENT. He's settling for a lot less than he's capable of because no one is fucking TELLING him he's wasting it.

It's almost a fucking FACT that Monkeys was a disappointment. Outside of the redone songs, you couldn't find me a single RBF fan who thinks it's their best album. Because it's generally agreed upon that the songs are NOT well written outside of about 2 of them.

THIS is what we're worried about. We don't think "Aaron needs a producer because he sucks lol", we're thinking that he needs someone to tell him to not make generic crap, because from what we have seen since Cheer Up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT FOR HIMSELF.

And what has changed the most since Cheer Up? The fact that there has been NO person to tell Aaron Barrett that his songs need work. Nothing else is different.

I think some of you are TRYING to not see the other side of the argument on purpose.

EDIT: By the way, can someone send me Bang The Mouse Explodes? I lost it when I switched computers.

[Surly]

[quote1234297977=Desensitized]
[quote1234294229=The Wind]"That song you wrote, Please Don't Tell Her I Have A Girlfriend? Don't even bother recording it. But that other one, Bang! The Mouse Explodes? That belongs on the album."

See how much better Monkeys would have been already?
[/quote1234294229]And a good Producer would have done just that. RBF needs more songs like Bang, and less songs like Girlfriend.

RBF is quickly becoming the Nickleback of ska. All their songs sound alike, with no variation in tempo, generic topics, and then there's Aaron Kroeger.

You know what the difference is? Aaron Barrett has TALENT. He's settling for a lot less than he's capable of because no one is fucking TELLING him he's wasting it.

It's almost a fucking FACT that Monkeys was a disappointment. Outside of the redone songs, you couldn't find me a single RBF fan who thinks it's their best album. Because it's generally agreed upon that the songs are NOT well written outside of about 2 of them.

THIS is what we're worried about. We don't think "Aaron needs a producer because he sucks lol", we're thinking that he needs someone to tell him to not make generic crap, because from what we have seen since Cheer Up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT FOR HIMSELF.

And what has changed the most since Cheer Up? The fact that there has been NO person to tell Aaron Barrett that his songs need work. Nothing else is different.

I think some of you are TRYING to not see the other side of the argument on purpose.

EDIT: By the way, can someone send me Bang The Mouse Explodes? I lost it when I switched computers.
[/quote1234297977]

I'm not so great at getting my opinions written out well, but this sums it all up perfectly. JD. You're my MOTM. 😉

And you'll find Bang! in the RBF Rarities thread.

[The Wind]

After your post, JD, I went to check the album inlines, but I realized that most are at my mom's house.

ANYWAY, I do have TTRO and Monkeys.

TTRO has four songs that are credited "a.barrett" alone.

Monkeys has two songs that aren't credited to just Aaron Barret. And one of them is Co-credited to Capt. Morgan. The other is Cannibal.

Can we assess what needs to happen, then?

[Surly]

I do believe the Capt. Morgan is refering to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Morgan

So that leaves one song that wasn't just by Aaron. And it happens to be the best one on the album.

I've said it before but what I'd like over anything is for more writing contributions from other members, Scott and Dan especially. I've never been in a writing situation myself where one person writes one song completely by themselves and I can't see how it can be beneficial to the music. It starts getting old and the writer usually starts becoming arrogant and protective about 'their' music.

Case in point: Tomas Kalnoky.

[Desensitized]

Yes! Thanks for the directions to the rarity thread.

Bang is such a fucking awesome song.

[Sonic Libido]

I really didn't like cannibal all that much, what's with all the crazy love for it?

[The Wind]

[quote1234305749=Surly]
I do believe the Capt. Morgan is refering to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Morgan

So that leaves one song that wasn't just by Aaron. And it happens to be the best one on the album.

I've said it before but what I'd like over anything is for more writing contributions from other members, Scott and Dan especially. I've never been in a writing situation myself where one person writes one song completely by themselves and I can't see how it can be beneficial to the music. It starts getting old and the writer usually starts becoming arrogant and protective about 'their' music.

Case in point: Tomas Kalnoky.
[/quote1234305749]

Well, duh, Capt. Morgan didn't actually help him write the song because he's not real. I was saying that tongue-in-cheek, and by saying it was Cannibal, I was insinuating that the best song on the album was a collaboration.

And, UGH, don't get me started on Kalnoky and his superfans.

[Surly]

[quote1234306129=The Wind]
[quote1234305749=Surly]
I do believe the Capt. Morgan is refering to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Morgan

So that leaves one song that wasn't just by Aaron. And it happens to be the best one on the album.

I've said it before but what I'd like over anything is for more writing contributions from other members, Scott and Dan especially. I've never been in a writing situation myself where one person writes one song completely by themselves and I can't see how it can be beneficial to the music. It starts getting old and the writer usually starts becoming arrogant and protective about 'their' music.

Case in point: Tomas Kalnoky.
[/quote1234305749]

Well, duh, Capt. Morgan didn't actually help him write the song because he's not real. I was saying that tongue-in-cheek, and by saying it was Cannibal, I was insinuating that the best song on the album was a collaboration.

And, UGH, don't get me started on Kalnoky and his superfans.
[/quote1234306129]

You'll have to excuse me for missing the sarcasm of your text. 😀

[The Wind]

I know, it's hard.

[CannonBall]

[quote1234379653=Desensitized]

RBF is quickly becoming the Nickleback of ska. All their songs sound alike, with no variation in tempo, generic topics, and then there's Aaron Kroeger.

The thing I miss the most about their songs are the transitions. TTRO and WDTRSH always had good transitions into the different parts of the songs. And when was the last time you heard a transition into, and then a bridge like the one in The Setup?

You know what the difference is? Aaron Barrett has TALENT. He's settling for a lot less than he's capable of because no one is fucking TELLING him he's wasting it.

That's exactly why I started this thread. We get little snippets of talent in some songs, but the rest are starting to sound like a high school ska band with really talented members who just can't do anything but try and sound like RBF. RBF actually sound like a band that is trying to sound like RBF, but they aren't pulling it off anymore and I think they forgot how to do it.

It's almost a fucking FACT that Monkeys was a disappointment. Outside of the redone songs, you couldn't find me a single RBF fan who thinks it's their best album. Because it's generally agreed upon that the songs are NOT well written outside of about 2 of them.

I really liked Monkeys when it came out, and I think in terms of audio production, Aaron did a much better job than on WNHTYNH, but the album didn't have much staying power. That's saying a lot after I had to wait 3 months for CCNOW to not even give me my fucking CD. I Think most of the songs on that album were just kind of novelty songs. I think that Party Down is a musically interesting song, but it's just like a toy you'd buy at Spencers or Hot Topic and you're over it after awhile. I think with a producer, that song could have been really good.

THIS is what we're worried about. We don't think "Aaron needs a producer because he sucks lol", we're thinking that he needs someone to tell him to not make generic crap, because from what we have seen since Cheer Up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT FOR HIMSELF.

Exactly, and this IS RBF turning into a RBF cover band.

And what has changed the most since Cheer Up? The fact that there has been NO person to tell Aaron Barrett that his songs need work. Nothing else is different.

What kind of input do you think the rest of the band members have in the songs? Writers credits on songs are usually focused on the lyrics and general song structure, so I wonder who writes the horn lines?

I think some of you are TRYING to not see the other side of the argument on purpose.

Fuck you!! oh wait, we agree on this…

EDIT: By the way, can someone send me Bang The Mouse Explodes? I lost it when I switched computers.
[/quote1234379653]

[Desensitized]

I stand by my opinion on 'What Are Friends For?' being the best song RBF have ever written and performed.

The drum beat, the horns, vocals, everything has so much thought put into it, that I can't even listen to it without rocking along with it. That part where all the instruments cut out and all you hear as 'YEAH! WOO!' then when everything kicks in again is fucking brilliant.

The lyrics are original and well written, too. No girl problems, no high school juvenile lyrics, nothing pedestrian about it. Yet NO ONE will argue it's not 'RBF'.

Nothing he has written since outside of Cannibal, Bang! The Mouse Explodes, Slow Down, or The Bad Guy comes anywhere close to it.

I just wish they would PLAY IT LIVE!

[The Wind]

[quote1234382181=Desensitized]
That part where all the instruments cut out and all you hear as 'YEAH! WOO!' then when everything kicks in again is fucking brilliant.
[/quote1234382181]

I love that part!

[Desensitized]

Yeah, that's my favorite part on all of Cheer Up. Just so well timed.

I just listened to it again. Matt's bassline slithers through this song, it adds that little extra kick that he usually added. Carlos' drumming, the way the snare pops along to the bass adds this awesome undercurrent to the song.

The background vocals ('Guess what?', 'I lied'), and the way Aaron let's the lyrics breathe with every line, the power of the horns, and the delicious guitar solo…

Damn, I almost want to listen to it again. :p

[CannonBall]

That and Average Man need a good listen.

[MAX!]

I love Average Man

[Desensitized]

It should have been on Cheer Up.

And as far as I'm concerned, it is. 😉

[CannonBall]

[quote1279765225=Sonic Libido]
[quote1232919870=CannonBall]

and B.) how you could like RBF and not FOE (considering Aaron wrote MOST of the FOE album for RBF originally)

I don't like FOE because Scott isn't in the band. Scott is the most talented member in RBF and has a very special singing voice, FOE is Aaron singing with himself. I just don't like FOE, I really don't like much ska to begin with so it takes a lot to win my approval (my approval is important to myself and only myself)

If you can't see the difference between RBF and FOE then you are the one that really doesn't understand RBF.

What made RBF good was the fact that their songs weren't straight up ska songs, they had creativity and depth and dynamic to them. They would always have interesting transitions from one part of a song to the next.

Listen to "Nothin' Like A Dame" and then listen to their new cover album and explain to me how any part of this album matches the creativity of that one song.

[/quote1232919870]

and as for the productin calls everyone's yelling for, quite frenkly, what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that you want someone else to tell RBF how to be R…. B…. F? …. if you don't like RBF produced by RBF then what you're saying is you don't like products that are 100% made by the band… and you think they should bring in a producer to make a cookie-cutter album based on his experience with other groups? Aaron knows how the songs are supposed to sound, if you don't like the RBF songs that RBF writes, plays and produces themselves then you don't like RBF…. pretty much plain and simple…. because no one is more qualified to produce the albums than Aaron.
[/quote1279765225]

You are 100% correct and I think "A Best of us" clearly proves that I was right. Apples to Apples the RBF songs are better when someone helps produce the albums. There clearly needs to be someone in the room to tell Aaron to turn down the distorted guitars.

[CannonBall]

[quote1279765593=madamadam]
Seriously what is wrong with all of you? Just wait until the album's released and THEN we'll discuss whether a producer was necessary or not – have a bit of neutrality.
[/quote1279765593]

I think we can all agree that I producer was necessary 🙂

[CannonBall]

[quote1279765645=Desensitized]
I'm willing to wait and see what he does on the next album, I'm just saying that from what I've heard, I'm not sure he can pull it off.
[/quote1279765645]

And you were right!

Sorry, it's really boring at work today…

[CannonBall]

[quote1279765689=CannonBall]
[quote1233422551=madamadam]
Seriously what is wrong with all of you? Just wait until the album's released and THEN we'll discuss whether a producer was necessary or not – have a bit of neutrality.
[/quote1233422551]

No way, it's much better to make our arguments now, this way we can come back and quote ourselves as being right when the album is released.
[/quote1279765689]

Ha, I totally forgot I said this, but at least I feel justified making all these stupid posts…

[CannonBall]

[quote1279765872=Sonic Libido]
I mean, the way we're hearing them now is how Aaron (the writer) want;s them to sound… why would you want anything else then the song how it's supposed to be?

…it just seems…. I don't know… stupid.
[/quote1279765872]

Is this how the songs are supposed to be?

[CannonBall]

[quote1279766915=CannonBall]
Aaron will have no outside opinions if he produces the next RBF album himself. Therefore he will most likely be rehashing the same ideas that he's always had. No matter how great of a musician you are, it's easy to get lost in your own ideas.
[/quote1279766915]

If only I knew how right I was…

[CannonBall]

[quote1279767469=CannonBall]
[quote1234379653=Desensitized]
THIS is what we're worried about. We don't think "Aaron needs a producer because he sucks lol", we're thinking that he needs someone to tell him to not make generic crap, because from what we have seen since Cheer Up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT FOR HIMSELF.

Exactly, and this IS RBF turning into a RBF cover band.

[/quote1279767469]

Once again, I called it! They really did turn into a RBF cover band…

[El]

I think Aaron has proved himself as a producer after A Best of Us. When the songs were great, they were great, sometimes even better than the originals. When I didn't like them, they were still pretty well-produced. It definitely wasn't a bland "samey" album like FFF was. All the songs on that album sounded the same, production-wise. I think we can expect better things from the new album, at least in a production sense, judging from the Best Of.

Now Aaron just has to prove that he's still a good songwriter. He's had three years to write an album's worth of new songs, after all. I'm sure I could gloss over his steadily declining vocals if the album was just filled with well-written songs. The rest of the band's still got it, but if the frontman has really lost it, then we've got nothing left but the glorious past.

So here's to hoping that Aaron's still got it and 2011 will be a great year for Reel Big Fish and their fans!

[CannonBall]

I don't think anything on this album proved that Aaron is good at producing RBF, maybe he's good at producing other bands, but from this album it's clear that he really likes his guitar to be cranked up really loud.

There were also some pretty inexcusable issues on this album that I producer would have never let slide…

Such as Suckers "Hey everybody, I got something to TELL", whatever he tries to do with "tell" is clearly out of key and sloppy.

This album is bland and boring just like FFF. Actually the just for fun acoustic songs are probably the best part of the album because you can hear the other instruments since there is no distorted guitar.

They also need to record in a real studio, the whole reason this album sounds flat compared to their others is because the studio sucks. I swear to god I could do a better job producing their next album in my friends professional studio.

Aaron, I challenge you to let me record three new songs in my friends studio http://www.gadgetbox.net and if you like it you have to let me produce your next album and record it in this studio. These three songs will be free. I love you guys but the new stuff is weak. I've recorded better stuff than this with my band back in high school.

[El]

[quote1279774046=CannonBall]
I don't think anything on this album proved that Aaron is good at producing RBF, maybe he's good at producing other bands, but from this album it's clear that he really likes his guitar to be cranked up really loud.
[/quote1279774046]

I didn't mind the volume of the guitar as much of the tone of it. And my favorite RBF albums are the guitar-heavy ones. Additionally, why wouldn't Aaron like his guitar cranked up really loud…he's producing himself! The one problem with him as producer is that he doesn't notice his mistakes as mistakes, though. The biggest problem on the disc music-wise was his singing and playing, and that's no coincidence.

I've recorded better stuff than this with my band back in high school.

I recorded an album in a basement that sounded better than the stuff done at Music Inc. or whatever. So what? I think Best Of turned out fine despite it.

[CannonBall]

I like the heavy guitar stuff too, but this was too loud and not heavy so it's not the same thing. Yeah, it turned out fine, but these guys have been playing music for a long time, they should be producing great records right now, not stuff like this.

[The Wind]

It does seem like masturbation.
At this point, I'd say that Barrett needs to be a producer on all forthcoming RBF albums. He just should not be the only one.

[El]

Well, he's always said that he was always in the studio with the producers, telling them what to do and what not to do (maybe Cheer Up! is an exception? Maybe Val was just a very strong-willed producer.) and that technically being producer is just a level above that. I don't think Aaron would work with a producer because there's no one to tell him that he should. There's no record company to tell him, and no one in the band is going to tell him. I wish at least Scott would go in there and do some of the stuff with him, but since it's already been called into question if Scott even recorded vocals and stuff in the studio, I think that may be wishful thinking too.

I want Aaron to have control of his band's music, of course. But not so much that he loses sight of all creativity and just sticks with "this is something that sounds like something I think we would do."

[CannonBall]

Good points. The overall feeling and energy I get from the post Jive releases are that of a ska band trying to sound like RBF. It just seems like they are trying too hard to do what they've already done when they should be trying slightly new ideas.

[Bradleystp]

[quote1279848754=Desensitized]
[quote1234294229=The Wind]"That song you wrote, Please Don't Tell Her I Have A Girlfriend? Don't even bother recording it. But that other one, Bang! The Mouse Explodes? That belongs on the album."

See how much better Monkeys would have been already?
[/quote1234294229]And a good Producer would have done just that. RBF needs more songs like Bang, and less songs like Girlfriend.

RBF is quickly becoming the Nickleback of ska. All their songs sound alike, with no variation in tempo, generic topics, and then there's Aaron Kroeger.

You know what the difference is? Aaron Barrett has TALENT. He's settling for a lot less than he's capable of because no one is fucking TELLING him he's wasting it.

It's almost a fucking FACT that Monkeys was a disappointment. Outside of the redone songs, you couldn't find me a single RBF fan who thinks it's their best album. Because it's generally agreed upon that the songs are NOT well written outside of about 2 of them.

THIS is what we're worried about. We don't think "Aaron needs a producer because he sucks lol", we're thinking that he needs someone to tell him to not make generic crap, because from what we have seen since Cheer Up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT FOR HIMSELF.

And what has changed the most since Cheer Up? The fact that there has been NO person to tell Aaron Barrett that his songs need work. Nothing else is different.

I think some of you are TRYING to not see the other side of the argument on purpose.

EDIT: By the way, can someone send me Bang The Mouse Explodes? I lost it when I switched computers.
[/quote1279848754]

This is dead on. I was reading through this thread and saw this post, and I couldn't agree more. Aaron can still have full control, but he needs someone else there to say, "try this, or adjust that, or retry that part and see if something else works." EVERY band needs that. The guy who writes/composes the songs, sings, and plays guitar should not be the only one producing. I don't care how much you worship the guy, this is just how it is. For any band, in my opinion.

I read all the reviews of 'A best of us', and I can't believe I am listening to the same CD as some of you guys. Maybe I am too old, and the old versions just sound 'right' to me, but some of the problems in these songs are too big for me to overlook. The vocals have serious issues, and to me, the horns just sound dead on a few of the songs. The guitar is really loud on a few songs, and completely overpowers everything else. This in itself is a reason for someone else to co-produce.

I think that WDTRSH is the best RBF CD/Sound/Songs that they have ever done. I like the mix of rock/reggae/ska, and the sound is good on that album. It is full, it is rich, and if there are mistakes, they sound like they were done purposely. The new album is seriously painful at times to listen to. I don't know how I am in the minority on this. Are they all bad? Absolutely not. But it seems that every release just gets further and further away from what makes this band great. And they are great. They just need a little kick, and a little assistance.

[CannonBall]

I used to think WDTRSH was their best CD, but Cheer Up! has really grown on me and it was one of the first albums they recorded with all new songs. Clearly having someone produce that album made the songs good, because the re-recorded versions aren't good enough to be from the same band.

If I was to cover Suckers and it came out as bad as their re-record, I would re-do the song. I know a few defunct ska bands that could have re-recorded these songs better than RBF.

Now more than ever they need a producer, but I just don't think that's where they are headed.

From a business stand point the only people the care about are the young kids, they are the ones who continue to pay the bills and in order to be successful as a band you need to get new fans, and they are doing a good job at that. They are now the Blink 182 of ska except for the fact that even they use a producer.

[The Wind]

You make it sound like Blink 182's latest album was made just to appease children, in which case I am forced to believe you have not even heard it.

[Bradleystp]

Listen, I read my posts after and feel like I come off like I don't like the band or what they do. That is the problem, I really like this band, and I just see changes that I feel set them back instead of forward. They should be absolutely blowing us away now; they are a great group of musicians. I think they just need a little channeling in the right direction.

I look at the crazy cover songs they have done (Take on Me, Nothing Like a Dame, Kiss Me Deadly, Love Boat, Unity, Rock it With I, etc) and then I listen to FFF, some of them are so simple and plain, it seems like the effort just wasn't there. (I do really like the Poison covers; Brown Eyed Girl is one of my least favorite songs ever by Reel Big Fish)

Anyway, I'm sure that the new album will be OK, but I want it to be great. I hope they have been working hard and that is why the cover and greatest hits album have been coming out; to give them more time to work on new material.

[The Wind]

Don't get us wrong: I don't think anyone here dislikes the band. By now, we're frustrated because we love the band RBF got me into music, simple as that. I probably wouldn't be as into music as I am if it weren't for them.

It's like watching your father start using heroine and then he ends up retarded.

[The Wind]

I have on the new version of The New Version of You right now.

The lyrics are ripe with unintended irony.

[CannonBall]

[quote1279870453=The Wind]
It's like watching your father start using heroine and then he ends up retarded.
[/quote1279870453]

That's so awesome.

I think we all feel the same way, they have so much potential to be great but it's like they just don't care anymore.

As for blink 182 I was mostly referring to their between song banter about dicks and their childish stuff. Both bands have a young audience that they appeal to and that's a good thing because that's what keeps bands alive. RBF will be able to stay alive if they keep doing what they're doing just because young kids (for the most part) don't care about production values, they just care about fun songs.

We are just no longer the audience that RBF cares about anymore. When I went to Best Buy to get the album I couldn't find it so I spent like 30 minutes looking for it because I was to embarrassed to ask someone if they had the new RBF album that came out that day.

[CannonBall]

John Avala produced, sang, mixed and played the Charango on this album http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariachi_El_Bronx

Listen to it here http://www.ilike.com/artist/Mariachi+El+Bronx?src=onebox

Just spend the money and let John Avala produce RBF again.

Even just the whole idea of this album is cool. The band that did this album is a punk band but decided to do a Mariachi album.

From the Wikipedia page.

On the impetus for switching styles for the album, Caughthran remarked that many musicians "kind of blow it by not challenging themselves and not listening to their urges, so to speak. A lot of bands play it safe and make the same record over and over again […] It was just one of those things, where we got asked to do an acoustic thing for Fuel TV, and it's like nothing sucks more than rock bands playing acoustic rock songs. You know, it just sucks. So we did a song mariachi style, and it just opened up this whole thing where we were like 'This is awesome.' So we wrote some songs, and it just became."

RBF need to just do something like this.

[Sonic Libido]

you have little concept of how much Aaron hates producers. It's like a religion for him.

[El]

[quote1285000976=Sonic Libido]
you have little concept of how much Aaron hates producers. It's like a religion for him.
[/quote1285000976]

Aaron produces Reel Big Fish. Does he hate himself?

If so, can he PLEASE write another album about it?

[The Wind]

I get it. I don't like it, but it's true. The dudes hates other people telling a band what to do. Someone posted an interview here, and in it Aaron said that he's not going to produce other bands anymore because he hates telling a band what to do and he feels they should hate him for it.

Let's just hope he's learned enough to produce his own work effectively by now. I don't think any artist should do it, especially on a professional level, but there you have it.

[GodKill123]

I like John Avila.

I just wish Aaron would ask some minor help from him because it's hard to produce your own album.

[CannonBall]

It's just kind of odd. I understand him not wanting a producer, but I don't agree with it. Now what he said about producing other bands is just weird. I thought the Chase Long Beach album sounded good… Kind of like, "damn I'm wrong, he can produce!".

If I had a band right now and I could get him as a producer I'd do it in a second, he's probably good at it. He's just not good enough to produce RBF. RBF at their best is a really complex and interesting band, the production of their albums was really what set them apart from other ska bands, they were more than just a punk band with a horn section. They had very complex and interesting transitions and lots of interesting overdubs and dynamic. It's a big undertaking to produce a RBF album (look how long Cheer Up! took… Well the newest album is taking the longest) and when one person tries to do it all it's just too overwhelming.

They don't need the major label, but they need a major label producer.

Their first three major label albums set the bar really high for the rest of their career. So they either need to get a high caliber producer to help them record an album that's up to the standards of the label recordings, or they will never do anything like their first three albums ever again.

To me that's the same as giving up. "Well, we're never going to release an album as solid as those three for the rest of the career, but let's just keep trucking along anyway". I wonder what that feels like?

So for those of us in the argument here that's how it's going to be. The next time I'll be excited about a new album will be when they get a producer. Until then it's not the same band for me. I just have very high expectations and RBF will not meet those expectations unless they get a big name producer. That's all that I want, just throw $500,000 at someone big and I'll be happy.

[The Wind]

That's a lot of money that they've probably never had in their life. Is that a joke?

[El]

[quote1285048069=The Wind]
That's a lot of money that they've probably never had in their life. Is that a joke?
[/quote1285048069]

Seriously. Without a record label (which they will definitely NEVER go back on), they don't have the money to hire a big-name producer.

[Sonic Libido]

yeah, for an indie band, $500,000 is sell the house type shit. you should read some of the stuff on how much mid-card bands make off tours. It's fucking gross.

[CannonBall]

Yeah it was a joke $500,000 was a joke, I don't know who gets paid that much. But they could drop some decent money for a producer. It would make the album more money in the long run. Get El Jefe from NOFX.

And clearly John Avila isn't expensive since SL had him produce an album, and then that Mariachi band by the Bronx which is really good hired him to produce. He's wrked with RBF before, I'm sure he'd do it again.

[CannonBall]

We should just start spreading roumours about who is going to produce the next album, maybe hype it up and get John Avail the same way Betty White got on SNL. Let's facebook group this shit man!

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1285058566=Sonic Libido]
you have little concept of how much Aaron hates producers. It's like a religion for him.
[/quote1285058566]

[CannonBall]

That doesn't make it right, just stubborn.

[LyinAss Bitch]

Right according to who? You're like a control freak…perhaps a producer yourself?

[CannonBall]

According to their albums that had producers and the ones produced by Aaron.

[El]

[quote1285221740=CannonBall]
According to their albums that had producers and the ones produced by Aaron.
[/quote1285221740]

What about We're Not Happy? I think having a big record company giving you lots of money to record helps too.

[CannonBall]

The songs were good but even Aaron says the production of that album was bad, so…

[Sonic Libido]

Aaron says the production on every album is bad after he's done hyping it.

[CannonBall]

I got bored and emailed John Avila about working with RBF on their new album and here's what he said.

Hi Julian, thanks for your message. I'm very happy you dig my work w RBF, Bronx. I'm very proud of those records. I'll be starting a 2nd Mariachi Bronx record in Nov.

I have great memories working w RBF. They were so young when we did those records. Who knows. it might be a nice reunion. ??
All The Best……
J

Doesn't sound like it was a horrible experience having John Avila produce their album. It would be so great to have him produce the new album.

[Sonic Libido]

[quote1286691400=Sonic Libido]
[quote1285058566=Sonic Libido]
you have little concept of how much Aaron hates producers. It's like a religion for him.
[/quote1285058566]

[/quote1286691400]

[CannonBall]

No, I just don't care.

[Sonic Libido]

Okay. That doesn't change anything.

[Author]

Posts