watchmen

Yeah, you know, I wasn't totally into it a first, but I'd say, as a film, it looks really good.

I had tickets to catch it in iMAX but my parents totally skullfucked my plans.

can't wait…too bad i have other obligations opening night.

http://www.filmthreat.com/index.php?section=reviews&Id=11601

It’s a comic book. No, it’s a graphic novel. Hang on, it’s one of the most significant literary works of the 20th century (according to Time magazine). It’s “Watchmen,” and almost from the moment the final issue of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ magnum opus hit the shelves in 1987, it was deemed unfilmable. The narrative was considered too dense and nuanced for a standard length feature. Moreover it was thought the books’ parallel reality setting, including an issue-long interlude on Mars, would be too difficult to re-create on the big screen. The latter concern was easily addressed with the advent of powerful computer effects, and as for the former…that still proves to be a problem, unfortunately. “Watchmen” is indeed gorgeous, with Gibbons’ original work reproduced and – in some cases – improved upon by detailed F/X, but even at a healthy two hours and 41 minutes the story feels truncated. Even abrupt.

It doesn’t seem that way at first. Set on an alternate Earth where Nixon is serving his 5th Presidential term, America won the Vietnam War, and costumed heroes have been outlawed, “Watchmen” starts off briskly, opening with the murder of one Edward Blake (Jeffrey Dean Morgan). Also known as the Comedian, Blake was one of only two superheroes employed by the U.S. government. A nifty opening credits sequence introduces us to the Comedian’s fellow superheroes and their history together, including his early years with a group known as the Minutemen and later as a member of the Watchmen.

One of the Comedian’s former colleagues, the masked vigilante Rorschach (Jackie Earl Haley), has defied the government’s ban and conducts his own investigation, concluding that a conspiracy is afoot to rid the world of superheroes. He takes it upon himself to warn his old partners, including gadgeteer Nite Owl (Patrick Wilson), “world’s smartest man” Ozymandius (Matthew Goode), reluctant femme fatale Silk Spectre II (Malin Ackerman), and Dr. Manhattan (Billy Crudup), the only one of the bunch with actual (near godlike) powers. In a combination of flashbacks and present-day action, we learn of each member’s origins and their attempts to unravel the apparent plot to eliminate the remaining superheroes.

Skipping plot summaries, let me just say director Zack Snyder is really in a no-win situation here: those unfamiliar with the original comic are coming in with no knowledge of the main characters and are faced with a flick lacking much of the action of its genre contemporaries (though no doubt they’ll cheer Rorschach’s antics while missing the entire point of his nihilism). Fans of the series (who tend to be zealous in their affections) are already steamed at the expurgation of some of the book’s elements (“Tales of the Black Freighter, “Under the Hood,” most of the New Frontiersman subplot) as well as Snyder’s stylistic…enhancements, which kind of fly in the face of his assertions that he’s a “big fan” of the comic.

The biggest departure is actually the ending, which – amusingly enough – ends up being the change that makes the most sense. The mid-1980s were the height of the Cold War, after all, and Moore’s hypothesis that even in an alternate reality we were likely doomed to nuclear extinction made the original climax that much more effective. But this is a new century, so antiquated fears of hegemonic warfare must take a back seat to the energy crisis.

Likewise, today’s jaded audiences won’t be satisfied with vintage mid-1980s style violence. Everything about Snyder’s film is “Watchmen Extreme:” It’s no longer enough for Rorschach to beat up a dozen cops, jump from a second floor window and get arrested; now he has to beat up another dozen before they wrestle him to the ground. Nite Owl and Silk Spectre II don’t use high-pitched “screechers” to disable the inmates and prison guards, they just beat the shit out of them. And – not content merely to wipe out central New York – Snyder destroys no less than the six biggest cities in the world.

Speaking as a 25-year fan of Alan Moore’s work, my curiosity at someone finally managing to bring “Watchmen” to the big screen is tempered by other, conflicting emotions. For starters, there's annoyance that Ackerman is all wrong for the role of Sally Jupiter, and Goode is far too callow to have trod the paths of Alexander of Macedonia. There’s also exasperation at the stripping away of most of the story’s nuance – for example, in the comic Blake joked about his whereabouts when JFK was assassinated, here we see him firing from the grassy knoll. It’s also unclear if Snyder and writers David Hayter and Alex Tse are unaware of the fact that the group never referred to themselves as “The Watchmen” or just ignored it.

Finally, there’s outright contempt for Snyder, who – with his repeated use of the quit cut/slo-mo gimmick utilized to such effectiveness in the gleefully excessive “300” – ironically embodies the very overindulgence that Rorschach repeatedly points out will be the death of our society. Is the movie visually arresting? Certainly, but it’s also glossy and ham-handed where the source material was unvarnished and introspective. In the end, all “Watchmen” proves is that some things are better remembered as relics of their era.

went to see it. walked out of the theater; big waste of my money and time.

[quote1236493917=the unlucky platypus]
went to see it. walked out of the theater; big waste of my money and time.
[/quote1236493917]Fuck.

[quote1236495464=the unlucky platypus]
went to see it. walked out of the theater; big waste of my money and time.
[/quote1236495464]

seems as though you have high standards.

[quote1236505866=Sonic Libido]
[quote1236495464=the unlucky platypus]
went to see it. walked out of the theater; big waste of my money and time.
[/quote1236495464]

seems as though you have high standards.
[/quote1236505866]

not really. i just kinda expect to see the watchmen when i go to see the watchmen…not some other story with elements and dialog from the watchmen stitched in. not quite as bad as video game movies (double dragon, anyone?) but still just superficially "watchmen". that and the guy playing comedian really was hit or miss in his scenes and he was batting about .230 when i left.

I see where you're coming from… but ion the otherside of the coin I see that if you wanna see watchmen….. read the book… or watch the motion comics.

I mean… it's a movie, not a comic, things are going to be different right off the bat, keep in mind that, because of the way the film industry works, in order to receive sufficient fundage they need to broaden the story so it a peals to more than just readers and comic fans…. I mean, if they placed it in the cold war, a hefty chunk of the market wouldn't care… and if the major price of failure was merely the destruction of New York I have a feeling the only people who'd care are new yorkers…

when the studio pays the bills you're kinda forced to change shit to reach a wider audience… and there's no way the film could've been made on an indie buget

A big naked blue guy is not an audience drawer. All movies have to yield to the studios somewhere; you've got to give some to get some.

Things aren't sounding good in terms of reproducing the original novel in movie form…

I'm still going to see this film eventually, but when I do I'll take it with a pinch of salt. I still hold out hope for a good movie, but from what you guys say it sounds like I'll have to regard it as a parallel storyline.

[quote1236535554=The Wind]
A big naked blue guy is not an audience drawer.[/quote1236535554]

and yet they left that part in.

My point.

i think that was my point…they left the movie cosmetically as the watchmen but the changes to the script were too pervasive to really consider the same story.

i mean it's not like x-men or spiderman or superman or batman where there's so many episodes, so many different stories, that someone can just approximate it and hit the mark. watchmen is just one story and they didn't even really hit the character points that well. they could have chopped out that super-extended fight scene at the beginning which never happened in the story and used that time for more of moore's writing with rorscharch's monologues. dunno…it loses its teeth when moore's writing is so hacked up in favor of mindless fight scenes and blood spatters.

Okay I gotcha.

Sigh, now I'm depressed.

[quote1236553593=the unlucky platypus]
writing is so hacked up in favor of mindless fight scenes and blood spatters.
[/quote1236553593]

Welcome to Hollywood, enjoy it for what it is or shut up, they're not going to change until the mass market's interests do

[quote1236579342=Sonic Libido]
I see where you're coming from… but ion the otherside of the coin I see that if you wanna see watchmen….. read the book… or watch the motion comics.

I mean… it's a movie, not a comic, things are going to be different right off the bat, keep in mind that, because of the way the film industry works, in order to receive sufficient fundage they need to broaden the story so it a peals to more than just readers and comic fans…. I mean, if they placed it in the cold war, a hefty chunk of the market wouldn't care… and if the major price of failure was merely the destruction of New York I have a feeling the only people who'd care are new yorkers…

when the studio pays the bills you're kinda forced to change shit to reach a wider audience… and there's no way the film could've been made on an indie buget
[/quote1236579342]

I totally agree with you, if you want the exact story, go read the damn book. Movies and books are different, and for what it is, I don't think you could find a movie that visually captures the essence of the book it's based on as this one does. Have any of you seen any Stephen King movies that were done for TV? Those are the most god awful pieces of work that I've ever seen, and some people think watchmen would have been better as a mini series, but what other TV mini series has a $150 million budget?

I think the movie was really good, I've read the GN once, it was good, but I don't get a boner for it like everyone else, it took a hell of a long time to read, and lots of parts were paced really slowly. For being almost 3 hours, I felt like I just watched a 90 minute Pixar movie. The pacing was really good and it is definitely one of those movies I could watch over and over again. I thought that the Dark Knight was one of those movies, but after two times through and really loving it, it lost it's charm.

Don't be a bitch and wait for it to come out on DVD, that would be stupid, if anyone has doubts, go watch the Watchmen MOVIE… Remember, it's a fucking movie, not the book, don't fucking nitpick, because nitpicking this movie is stupid.

[quote1236579625=Sonic Libido]
[quote1236553593=the unlucky platypus]
writing is so hacked up in favor of mindless fight scenes and blood spatters.
[/quote1236553593]

Welcome to Hollywood, enjoy it for what it is or shut up, they're not going to change until the mass market's interests do
[/quote1236579625]

i will never acquiesce to the confederacy of dunces.

i saw it today. the movie was ok, probally wont watch it again

[quote1236608987=bitchfist]
comic book films are never 100% true to the actual comic book
[/quote1236608987]

Not 100%, but Sin City is pretty damn close. Aside from a few dialogue changes and scene omissions (which is purely for time), it's verbatim.

[quote1236634331=The Wind]
[quote1236608987=bitchfist]
comic book films are never 100% true to the actual comic book
[/quote1236608987]

Not 100%, but Sin City is pretty damn close. Aside from a few dialogue changes and scene omissions (which is purely for time), it's verbatim.
[/quote1236634331]

i thought the nolan batman movies were pretty close. obviously not taking directly from any one story but taking the basic characters for the most part and really translating them well to the screen. but then again, that's the difference between doing one-off stories like sin city where that kind of literal translation is pretty necessary and serialized stories like batman where he's done so much of everything imaginable, it's not hard to hit the mark.

[quote1236635621=bitchfist]overall it was not true to the comics and at the end i was wondering what the fuck was going on
(the one bit i wanted to be in there was veidt shouting'I DID IT' when his plan worked)
[/quote1236635621]

they cut that out too?

damn…talking about cutting out every single point that gives the characters their personalities.

You didn't see the end?

Dan witnesses Rorschach's death and starts pounding of Ozy, saying what he did was wrong. Now that's something that bothers me.

But I haven't actually seen the movie yet.

[quote1236649600=The Wind]
You didn't see the end?
[/quote1236649600]

i guess you didn't read the part where i said i walked out of the theater. i didn't stay for the whole thing because all the drastic changes were too distracting for me to enjoy the movie. kept dragging me out of my suspension of disbelief.

[quote1236649819=The Wind]Dan witnesses Rorschach's death and starts pounding of Ozy, saying what he did was wrong. Now that's something that bothers me.
[/quote1236649819]

haha, are you making that up?

No, that's what I've heard from several sources. It's a nuisance because it totally dissolves the ambiguity of Ozymandias' morality… was he right? Oh, wait, the protagonist says he's evil!

[quote1236657057=The Wind]
No, that's what I've heard from several sources. It's a nuisance because it totally dissolves the ambiguity of Ozymandias' morality… was he right? Oh, wait, the protagonist says he's evil!
[/quote1236657057]

wow…so much for subtlety.

[i]I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.[/i]

[quote1236704423=bitchfist]
[quote1236649819=The Wind]Dan witnesses Rorschach's death and starts pounding of Ozy, saying what he did was wrong. Now that's something that bothers me.
[/quote1236649819]

haha, are you making that up?
[/quote1236700455]

that does happen
[/quote1236704423]

so much for the moral ambiguity that alan moore wanted to create with the story…

This is like, the worst thread ever

You're talking about the blatant redundancy of the last two posts?

[quote1236709323=The Wind]
You're talking about the blatant redundancy of the last two posts?
[/quote1236709323]

yeah, i'm sorry…i'm bored.

I just watched a cam. I've only read the book once, in one sitting. It took me about six to eight hours, I don't remember exactly how long. A long time. So I don't remember the specifics of dialogue. From a film standpoint, I wasn't all that entertained by it, really. They didn't make Dan and Laurie any more likable (such uninteresting characters).

The changes that I noticed were just silly, Dan at the end being the biggest annoyance. I mean, cutting out b-stories for time constraints had to be done. But this is adding a scene. Lame!

I just read this read this review of the movie, coincidentally written by a Paul Snyder:
[link=hyperlink url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-snyder/watchmen-love-and-misunde_b_174921.html [/link]

I think it sums up the movie pretty well.

did you hear that the movie's writer is saying that comic book nerds need to see it again this weekend to keep box office numbers up? the guy who butchered the storyline and dumbed it down is saying his movie is "smart, dark and operatic" and that in order to keep smart movies, you need to see it again.

i'd love my fist to see his face…and then see it again and again…like the friday the 13th sequels,